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start the sequence we've got activity on

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the hotline

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they've had their chance no no

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that's a clip from well i don't know

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wait a minute does it even matter i mean

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i think that's the sum of all fears but

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doesn't even matter it's just some other

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phony baloney orchestrated

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intelligence community

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propaganda psyop major motion picture

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[\h__\h] and i guess if you're

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uncomfortable with that idea if you're

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uncomfortable

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with the idea that you're being

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constantly

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played manipulated by some

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parapolitical psyop machine that we

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can't

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even begin to wrap our head around

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then you might have a hard time with

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today's interview with

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recluse here's a clip i want people to

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understand the techniques especially

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in terms of psychological operations

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that are being used i mean not just so

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you can recognize them but so you can

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learn how to use them yourselves because

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i mean effectively

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if we are going to have a third position

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or we are simply going to try to sway

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one of the two dominant positions in a

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more

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just say humanitarian direction what

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they're currently geared towards

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we have to understand their techniques

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and their methods welcome to skeptico

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where we explore controversial science

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and spirituality

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with leading researchers thinkers and

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their critics i'm your host alex sacaris

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and today we welcome steven snyder

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aka recluse to skeptico reckless is the

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author of a new book

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i have up on the screen if you're

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watching a special relationship

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trump epstein and the secret

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and the secret history of the

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anglo-american establishment

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i also wanted to mention another great

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book

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that stephen did along with his

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co-host co-creator of the excellent the

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farm podcast

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and that is a book titled strange tales

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of the parapolitical

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post-war nazis mercenaries and other

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secret history

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you can find that book on amazon but

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the other place and the real place to go

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to find that and the new book that's

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coming out

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is the visip blog that

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recluse does and you can go right there

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to the store

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and it's better for him i mean he gets a

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little bit more

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out of it which we definitely want when

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you're doing your own books like that

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so if you're unfamiliar with

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his work uh oh you're in for a real

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treat

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i mean recluse is very much of a deep

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dive kind of guy

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tons of research backed up with

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tons of really solid references and a

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lot of

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if only things were that simple

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kind of insights which i i love because

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that's kind of this level three kind of

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stuff

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it's never simple it's never one way so

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it's gonna be great fun for me i've been

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really looking forward to this one

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recluse man welcome to skeptico thanks

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so much for joining me

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yeah well thanks for having me on alex

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so you know what i thought we'd do is

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just uh

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jump in why don't you give folks

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a quick scan overview

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of those two books because what i'm

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really hoping to do is kind of stitch

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stomachs stitch some of this stuff

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together particularly

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as it's relating to the craziness that

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is unfolding on a

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daily basis and i love how you're

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pulling the lens

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back to this parapolitical perspective

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that is a little bit removed from the

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normal kind of conspiracy theory

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perspective

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but is absolutely essential to

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understanding

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any of this so with that kind of lens

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that i've already applied to the thing

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tell us about uh these two books that

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people might be interested in

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well the first one strange tales was

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kind of an anthology it was a collection

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of essays that

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myself and frank zero had written frank

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did like the introduction and i think

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the uh was

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the rfid chip one uh and then i did

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three myself

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one of them was on the uh you know

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famous or infamous

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uh point of view melon family of

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pittsburgh

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uh they've certainly been involved in a

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lot of intrigues uh a very wealthy

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family of course thomas mellon was the

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infamous secretary of treasury during uh

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the 1920s leading up to the

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can i just interject i just want to make

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sure you hit the high levels

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because you know for folks who are

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coming at this cold

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parapolitical is really really

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interesting in terms of where you're

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taking that i mean maybe break it down

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at that

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basic of a level of what does

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parapolitical

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mean to you and why would kind of most

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people that run across

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would go oh he's just a conspiracy

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conspiracy theory guy

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yeah well yeah yeah well that's actually

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what we're trying to like get away from

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essentially i mean parapolitical was

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essentially an attempt to do a more of a

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scholarly

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approach to deep politics i mean it

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would be a field that was uh

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really pioneered i think uh going into

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the 70s by researchers like peter dale

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scott

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or alfred mccoy and uh you know you can

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sort of see the lineage going on with

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people like douglas valentine with the

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great jeffrey bale those types of people

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but essentially i mean it was where you

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were actually doing your research you

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know

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i mean one of the things that i've

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learned doing this about 10 you know for

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10 years or so now that i mean the

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really

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stories are not the ones that you're

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going to find necessarily online and

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youtube videos or even in books frankly

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i mean they're

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going to be in private papers that are

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stashed away at all these different

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universities across the country they're

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going to be in personal interviews with

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some of these characters

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but i mean that's where you find the

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stuff that nobody's ever really heard of

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before and that's really

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to me the essence of true research i

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mean it's not just you know looking at

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some of the you know

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time-warned droves conspiracy culture

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like the old apparel horse and using

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that as a citation over and over again

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it's doing a legitimate and original

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research to try to bring

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new perspectives into a lot of these

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topics and that to me is what

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differentiates

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politics from conspiracy theory you know

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i absolutely agree with you

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but i'd add something else because i

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think there's so much more

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to what uh you're doing here

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in the i know maybe so much more is

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maybe a little bit too much

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but just to me there's a lens focus kind

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of shift in that we live

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i think we've we've now adapted to the

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parapolitical culture that we live in

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you know

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i'm an older guy than you are so i

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remember back you know the jfk

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assassination we ground on that you know

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all the books and the doubts and all

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that stuff

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for years and years and years jfk

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is parapolitical it always was

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parapolitical

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but we never had that lens so i think

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then we lived through that

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and we got into this conspiracy you know

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famous bush up there kind of laying out

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the word you know don't believe these

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conspiracy kind of things and we shifted

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and i think what you're doing is

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bringing that shift back and saying you

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know really this is the only way to look

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at

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any of this stuff is through this

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paraplegic and you're living in a

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parapolitical world

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that's what i see you saying so to me

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it's not even so much that we have to

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uh throw things away because they're too

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conspiratorial or

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they're citing the same references over

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and over again

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to me what you're really doing is a lens

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change and saying

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wait all this stuff that you think is

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real

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engineering it's mind games it's

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all this psyop kind of stuff what do you

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think about that lens

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shift kind of thing well i mean

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certainly i think in my case really

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that's what i've been trying to do a lot

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i mean especially relatively recently

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and trying to actually look

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more at um conspiracy culture itself

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because i mean it's very much a part of

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all of this i mean as much as anything

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and i mean it's really been

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instrumental i think in fragmenting the

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world view of civilization as a whole

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you know which we're definitely living

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in right now very much

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uh it's you know it's frankly been

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terrible consequences in that sense and

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that's one of the reasons why

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i've been trying to put such an emphasis

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on that because i want people to

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understand how all these psychological

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work their operations you know function

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and how they affect us and how they

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affect the different narratives that

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shape our reality essentially

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that's a great point and with that maybe

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i'd bring you back to this

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this book the strange terror tales of

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the parapolitical because

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one of the things you do in there and

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it's kind of an interesting

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contrast to the epstein book because the

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new

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epstein book which you know we're

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recording this

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october 23rd and that is supposed to

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drop

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and people can find it on your website

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like

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when in a week or two kind of thing yes

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yes hopefully within the next week or

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two

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but so we'll definitely get it out

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before the election

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yeah that would be that would be a must

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but the interesting thing i find between

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these two books

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is if there are these lingering doubts

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among people the advantage of the

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strange tales of the parapolitical

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is that it isn't rolling out in real

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time like the epstein book

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you know even though you're going back

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and tracing the history of it

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back to the 60s and even before that

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it's it's rolling in real time

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i mean maxwell's still in prison you

285
00:10:00,230 --> 00:09:58,160
know

286
00:10:01,750 --> 00:10:00,240
but that thing hasn't been resolved this

287
00:10:04,790 --> 00:10:01,760
one because

288
00:10:07,110 --> 00:10:04,800
you look at like post-war nazis down in

289
00:10:09,590 --> 00:10:07,120
south america and all the shenanigans

290
00:10:12,190 --> 00:10:09,600
they played clearly with the cia

291
00:10:13,670 --> 00:10:12,200
we have a little bit of a of a

292
00:10:15,990 --> 00:10:13,680
historical

293
00:10:17,750 --> 00:10:16,000
distance from it and when you start

294
00:10:18,949 --> 00:10:17,760
laying out the evidence which is

295
00:10:21,590 --> 00:10:18,959
undeniable

296
00:10:22,870 --> 00:10:21,600
i think it's it it's kind of harder for

297
00:10:26,150 --> 00:10:22,880
people to reject

298
00:10:27,990 --> 00:10:26,160
that the premise of it that this is

299
00:10:29,350 --> 00:10:28,000
what's in play and this is how you have

300
00:10:31,269 --> 00:10:29,360
to look at this stuff

301
00:10:33,110 --> 00:10:31,279
compared to like i say the new book

302
00:10:35,590 --> 00:10:33,120
epson we have lived through it

303
00:10:36,949 --> 00:10:35,600
but i think we're still kind of in shock

304
00:10:38,150 --> 00:10:36,959
about it yeah

305
00:10:40,310 --> 00:10:38,160
well that was you know one of the

306
00:10:42,150 --> 00:10:40,320
reasons too why i did try to uh

307
00:10:43,990 --> 00:10:42,160
focus essentially so much on that whole

308
00:10:46,230 --> 00:10:44,000
period between the 1930s and

309
00:10:47,670 --> 00:10:46,240
1960s where you know sort of the genesis

310
00:10:49,110 --> 00:10:47,680
of epstein's network

311
00:10:51,030 --> 00:10:49,120
came from in the first book because i

312
00:10:52,870 --> 00:10:51,040
mean that is something that we do have a

313
00:10:54,230 --> 00:10:52,880
certain advantage of time that's passed

314
00:10:55,430 --> 00:10:54,240
and there has been a lot of different

315
00:10:57,190 --> 00:10:55,440
works now that have been published

316
00:10:58,230 --> 00:10:57,200
especially in regards to perfumo because

317
00:11:00,230 --> 00:10:58,240
that's

318
00:11:02,230 --> 00:11:00,240
it's such an enigmatic scandal it's

319
00:11:04,310 --> 00:11:02,240
really very much like the uk's jfk

320
00:11:06,470 --> 00:11:04,320
assassination it's never really been

321
00:11:08,230 --> 00:11:06,480
satisfactory explained and now we do

322
00:11:10,230 --> 00:11:08,240
have those so many different testimonies

323
00:11:12,470 --> 00:11:10,240
regarding it so you do have a certain

324
00:11:15,190 --> 00:11:12,480
advantage in reconstructing events now

325
00:11:16,710 --> 00:11:15,200
tell people the basics on that and then

326
00:11:18,389 --> 00:11:16,720
i think they'll see the links but then

327
00:11:19,910 --> 00:11:18,399
the links to how it

328
00:11:21,430 --> 00:11:19,920
goes all the way forward to what we're

329
00:11:23,509 --> 00:11:21,440
living in now

330
00:11:26,069 --> 00:11:23,519
well perfumo was a scandal that broke

331
00:11:28,550 --> 00:11:26,079
out in 1963 it had its origins though

332
00:11:29,990 --> 00:11:28,560
about two years earlier in 61

333
00:11:31,910 --> 00:11:30,000
and it basically involved a love

334
00:11:33,590 --> 00:11:31,920
triangle uh involving a woman named

335
00:11:34,470 --> 00:11:33,600
christine keeler who was having an

336
00:11:37,190 --> 00:11:34,480
affair with

337
00:11:38,790 --> 00:11:37,200
um john perfumo who was a member of uh

338
00:11:39,910 --> 00:11:38,800
harold macmillan the prime minister's

339
00:11:42,949 --> 00:11:39,920
cabinet

340
00:11:45,829 --> 00:11:42,959
and um yuri ivanov who was

341
00:11:46,630 --> 00:11:45,839
a soviet naval attache there and also a

342
00:11:48,790 --> 00:11:46,640
gru

343
00:11:50,790 --> 00:11:48,800
agent on the side which is uh russia's

344
00:11:52,310 --> 00:11:50,800
uh still actually the principal military

345
00:11:54,310 --> 00:11:52,320
intelligence division

346
00:11:56,069 --> 00:11:54,320
and um obviously this created some

347
00:11:57,430 --> 00:11:56,079
issues you now essentially had a

348
00:11:58,710 --> 00:11:57,440
prominent british official who was

349
00:11:59,110 --> 00:11:58,720
having affair with the woman who was

350
00:12:01,590 --> 00:11:59,120
also

351
00:12:02,870 --> 00:12:01,600
sleeping with a uh you know spy

352
00:12:04,790 --> 00:12:02,880
effectively

353
00:12:06,230 --> 00:12:04,800
but um you know kind of further mudding

354
00:12:07,910 --> 00:12:06,240
the waters as christine

355
00:12:09,670 --> 00:12:07,920
was essentially one of the girls for

356
00:12:12,790 --> 00:12:09,680
this guy called stephen ward

357
00:12:14,150 --> 00:12:12,800
so-called society osteopath who

358
00:12:15,990 --> 00:12:14,160
was well connected throughout the

359
00:12:18,389 --> 00:12:16,000
british establishment and a lot of the

360
00:12:20,389 --> 00:12:18,399
americans were over there as well

361
00:12:21,590 --> 00:12:20,399
and that just goes into an incredible

362
00:12:23,829 --> 00:12:21,600
world of these just

363
00:12:24,870 --> 00:12:23,839
strange doings with these uh you know

364
00:12:26,470 --> 00:12:24,880
vip sex

365
00:12:27,990 --> 00:12:26,480
rings i mean you see just all these

366
00:12:28,790 --> 00:12:28,000
incredible things i mean some of this

367
00:12:31,509 --> 00:12:28,800
weird you know

368
00:12:33,350 --> 00:12:31,519
cult stuff frankly uh i mean the

369
00:12:34,629 --> 00:12:33,360
indications that the reminders involved

370
00:12:36,150 --> 00:12:34,639
in some of this

371
00:12:37,829 --> 00:12:36,160
but i mean it just brings up so many

372
00:12:39,190 --> 00:12:37,839
different levels and effectively this

373
00:12:41,269 --> 00:12:39,200
you know was instrumental in bringing

374
00:12:43,670 --> 00:12:41,279
down harold mcmillan's government

375
00:12:45,430 --> 00:12:43,680
in 1963 in the uk when the scandal

376
00:12:46,949 --> 00:12:45,440
started to break and then also i think

377
00:12:49,430 --> 00:12:46,959
it played a pretty crucial role in the

378
00:12:51,110 --> 00:12:49,440
kennedy assassination over here as well

379
00:12:52,790 --> 00:12:51,120
and that's also kind of another angle

380
00:12:54,310 --> 00:12:52,800
too that i mean americans who have

381
00:12:55,430 --> 00:12:54,320
looked at the kennedy assassination

382
00:12:57,110 --> 00:12:55,440
haven't really

383
00:12:58,550 --> 00:12:57,120
paid as much attention to as they

384
00:13:00,069 --> 00:12:58,560
probably should have and that was the

385
00:13:00,949 --> 00:13:00,079
goal of foreign governments in it as

386
00:13:02,470 --> 00:13:00,959
well

387
00:13:04,069 --> 00:13:02,480
um certainly i do think you can look at

388
00:13:05,990 --> 00:13:04,079
the elements of the uk being involved

389
00:13:07,670 --> 00:13:06,000
probably the israelis as well and so

390
00:13:08,870 --> 00:13:07,680
forth but i mean that's kind of like the

391
00:13:10,470 --> 00:13:08,880
same thing you're getting at with like

392
00:13:11,990 --> 00:13:10,480
uh you know the uh essay i did in

393
00:13:13,829 --> 00:13:12,000
colonial dignidad for instance in

394
00:13:16,069 --> 00:13:13,839
strange tales it's like

395
00:13:17,590 --> 00:13:16,079
colonia dignidot it's just it's so weird

396
00:13:19,670 --> 00:13:17,600
it almost doesn't seem like a place like

397
00:13:22,389 --> 00:13:19,680
that could even exist in the real world

398
00:13:23,670 --> 00:13:22,399
again recluse back up in and talk about

399
00:13:26,550 --> 00:13:23,680
that for people who

400
00:13:26,949 --> 00:13:26,560
who are coming at it cold there's also

401
00:13:31,990 --> 00:13:26,959
great

402
00:13:33,670 --> 00:13:32,000
documentary doesn't it

403
00:13:35,269 --> 00:13:33,680
that or not a documentary it's actually

404
00:13:37,190 --> 00:13:35,279
a movie uh called colonnade

405
00:13:38,310 --> 00:13:37,200
yes yes colony yes this is that was

406
00:13:39,990 --> 00:13:38,320
actually a pretty good one too

407
00:13:42,069 --> 00:13:40,000
recounting of it but um

408
00:13:46,230 --> 00:13:42,079
yeah it was essentially set up around uh

409
00:13:49,350 --> 00:13:46,240
1959 1960 thereabouts uh dignidad

410
00:13:51,910 --> 00:13:49,360
um by what was his name paul schaefer

411
00:13:54,470 --> 00:13:51,920
who uh had been some member of the uh

412
00:13:56,310 --> 00:13:54,480
nazi party at some point uh he ended up

413
00:13:57,430 --> 00:13:56,320
at setting up essentially this compound

414
00:13:59,110 --> 00:13:57,440
in chile

415
00:14:00,550 --> 00:13:59,120
it was a massive place i think around

416
00:14:01,430 --> 00:14:00,560
three or four hundred acres in its

417
00:14:03,030 --> 00:14:01,440
heyday

418
00:14:04,710 --> 00:14:03,040
essentially you had a whole german

419
00:14:06,870 --> 00:14:04,720
community that was living there

420
00:14:09,269 --> 00:14:06,880
um they almost at all immigrated over

421
00:14:12,389 --> 00:14:09,279
witch shaper in the early 60s

422
00:14:13,990 --> 00:14:12,399
uh they had you know they were

423
00:14:16,150 --> 00:14:14,000
segregated by the sexes in different

424
00:14:17,829 --> 00:14:16,160
compounds they were 14 hour days

425
00:14:19,430 --> 00:14:17,839
they had these confessional periods that

426
00:14:19,990 --> 00:14:19,440
were kind of like quiet time with the

427
00:14:21,829 --> 00:14:20,000
immoral

428
00:14:23,829 --> 00:14:21,839
armament movement and what's thought

429
00:14:24,150 --> 00:14:23,839
that type of thing it was a cult which

430
00:14:26,710 --> 00:14:24,160
is

431
00:14:27,750 --> 00:14:26,720
like key but the the other thing about

432
00:14:30,710 --> 00:14:27,760
it is

433
00:14:33,030 --> 00:14:30,720
it kind of provides again this lens on

434
00:14:35,430 --> 00:14:33,040
what the nazis were really all about

435
00:14:36,790 --> 00:14:35,440
and that we sometimes forget it was

436
00:14:40,150 --> 00:14:36,800
about total

437
00:14:43,430 --> 00:14:40,160
societal uh control

438
00:14:45,670 --> 00:14:43,440
and and and engineering you know at that

439
00:14:47,030 --> 00:14:45,680
cult level at that deep psychological

440
00:14:50,310 --> 00:14:47,040
level probably at

441
00:14:52,870 --> 00:14:50,320
uh an occult level and then

442
00:14:53,509 --> 00:14:52,880
certainly in terms of uh traumatizing

443
00:14:55,269 --> 00:14:53,519
people

444
00:14:57,430 --> 00:14:55,279
with sex and violence and everything

445
00:14:59,590 --> 00:14:57,440
else i mean it had all the

446
00:15:01,590 --> 00:14:59,600
all the buttons and then you know of

447
00:15:04,470 --> 00:15:01,600
course the tie back that you do

448
00:15:06,230 --> 00:15:04,480
in parapolitical is we had absolutely we

449
00:15:09,590 --> 00:15:06,240
as in the united states government

450
00:15:10,550 --> 00:15:09,600
had absolutely no problem partnering

451
00:15:12,790 --> 00:15:10,560
with these people

452
00:15:13,829 --> 00:15:12,800
learning from these people going oh wow

453
00:15:16,870 --> 00:15:13,839
that's a good one

454
00:15:20,550 --> 00:15:16,880
how can we how can we learn for at your

455
00:15:23,189 --> 00:15:20,560
footsteps and how can we bring you in

456
00:15:23,829 --> 00:15:23,199
to do our projects here or do our

457
00:15:26,310 --> 00:15:23,839
projects

458
00:15:27,110 --> 00:15:26,320
abroad and that raises all sorts of

459
00:15:29,990 --> 00:15:27,120
questions

460
00:15:31,509 --> 00:15:30,000
not just from a parapolitical standpoint

461
00:15:32,230 --> 00:15:31,519
but also you know as we'll get into

462
00:15:36,230 --> 00:15:32,240
later

463
00:15:38,870 --> 00:15:36,240
from a more deep you know spiritual

464
00:15:39,590 --> 00:15:38,880
kind of what should we be doing that is

465
00:15:41,509 --> 00:15:39,600
good and

466
00:15:43,430 --> 00:15:41,519
where should we draw the line between

467
00:15:46,550 --> 00:15:43,440
what's good and bad and moral

468
00:15:47,590 --> 00:15:46,560
so i i think you know all these points

469
00:15:49,509 --> 00:15:47,600
that you're raising and that's why i

470
00:15:51,670 --> 00:15:49,519
said this is so deep to get into

471
00:15:54,710 --> 00:15:51,680
are all jumping off points for some

472
00:15:58,230 --> 00:15:54,720
really really big questions any thoughts

473
00:15:59,910 --> 00:15:58,240
on on that linkage i mean really you

474
00:16:02,790 --> 00:15:59,920
know getting into this the whole

475
00:16:04,150 --> 00:16:02,800
uh the cold war era i mean really and

476
00:16:05,509 --> 00:16:04,160
this is something again that i mean a

477
00:16:07,350 --> 00:16:05,519
lot of people don't realize but there

478
00:16:09,350 --> 00:16:07,360
really was just this

479
00:16:11,590 --> 00:16:09,360
fascination with using these different

480
00:16:12,389 --> 00:16:11,600
kinds of cults and cult ideologies to

481
00:16:15,350 --> 00:16:12,399
advance u.s

482
00:16:17,269 --> 00:16:15,360
policy objectives abroad and um i mean

483
00:16:18,790 --> 00:16:17,279
you know you would reach into the nazi

484
00:16:21,110 --> 00:16:18,800
regime for this type of thing but i mean

485
00:16:22,310 --> 00:16:21,120
it was much more universal honestly than

486
00:16:23,829 --> 00:16:22,320
that i mean

487
00:16:25,829 --> 00:16:23,839
one of the more notorious ones that

488
00:16:27,030 --> 00:16:25,839
we've looked at on the farm recently was

489
00:16:29,189 --> 00:16:27,040
uh the unification

490
00:16:31,590 --> 00:16:29,199
church and i mean you know again this is

491
00:16:33,670 --> 00:16:31,600
another outfit that had all the textbook

492
00:16:35,189 --> 00:16:33,680
hallmarks of cult control i mean when

493
00:16:36,389 --> 00:16:35,199
you really study these things it's just

494
00:16:38,069 --> 00:16:36,399
amazing i mean how many of these

495
00:16:40,629 --> 00:16:38,079
techniques you see over and over again i

496
00:16:42,870 --> 00:16:40,639
mean the 14-hour work days segregation

497
00:16:45,030 --> 00:16:42,880
sexes confessionals public shaming and

498
00:16:47,269 --> 00:16:45,040
humiliations and whatnot

499
00:16:48,470 --> 00:16:47,279
uh and it's all rolled out going into

500
00:16:49,749 --> 00:16:48,480
the cold war

501
00:16:51,590 --> 00:16:49,759
with different groups some of them have

502
00:16:52,230 --> 00:16:51,600
been around like moral armament you had

503
00:16:54,230 --> 00:16:52,240
people like

504
00:16:55,269 --> 00:16:54,240
moonies you had places like colonial

505
00:16:57,189 --> 00:16:55,279
dignitad

506
00:16:58,870 --> 00:16:57,199
possibly scientology there's been a lot

507
00:17:00,629 --> 00:16:58,880
of rumors about that for years i don't

508
00:17:02,310 --> 00:17:00,639
know how true it is at this point or not

509
00:17:02,710 --> 00:17:02,320
but you know there are some interesting

510
00:17:05,189 --> 00:17:02,720
uh

511
00:17:06,710 --> 00:17:05,199
speculations on that but i mean this

512
00:17:09,429 --> 00:17:06,720
really was the kind of thing

513
00:17:11,429 --> 00:17:09,439
that we embraced you know nominally to

514
00:17:13,829 --> 00:17:11,439
defeat communism whether or not this

515
00:17:15,590 --> 00:17:13,839
purpose is debatable but that's what he

516
00:17:17,510 --> 00:17:15,600
gave as the reason for it

517
00:17:19,429 --> 00:17:17,520
and yeah i mean it did have a profound

518
00:17:20,150 --> 00:17:19,439
effect on our society because you really

519
00:17:22,069 --> 00:17:20,160
were

520
00:17:23,829 --> 00:17:22,079
empowering a lot of these just terrible

521
00:17:25,429 --> 00:17:23,839
and fringe ideologies and

522
00:17:27,350 --> 00:17:25,439
a lot of this stuff has corrupted into

523
00:17:28,470 --> 00:17:27,360
society at a more broader level at this

524
00:17:30,710 --> 00:17:28,480
point

525
00:17:31,909 --> 00:17:30,720
um you know that was something uh you

526
00:17:33,350 --> 00:17:31,919
know with the moonies i hadn't even

527
00:17:35,029 --> 00:17:33,360
really thought of but i mean my friend

528
00:17:37,029 --> 00:17:35,039
keith had pointed out on our podcast i

529
00:17:40,470 --> 00:17:37,039
mean everything from like taekwondo

530
00:17:43,029 --> 00:17:40,480
to sushi i mean you know where i want to

531
00:17:44,710 --> 00:17:43,039
tie this back because it ties directly

532
00:17:47,830 --> 00:17:44,720
back to the presentation

533
00:17:51,270 --> 00:17:47,840
you recently did on what was the

534
00:17:54,470 --> 00:17:51,280
the title of the conspira normal uh

535
00:17:56,070 --> 00:17:54,480
kind of uh conference that you guys did

536
00:17:57,270 --> 00:17:56,080
the virtual conference and you gave a

537
00:18:00,870 --> 00:17:57,280
presentation on

538
00:18:02,390 --> 00:18:00,880
mk ultra and cybernetics which i thought

539
00:18:05,669 --> 00:18:02,400
was fantastic

540
00:18:09,510 --> 00:18:05,679
and again tied these pieces together

541
00:18:12,789 --> 00:18:09,520
in terms of how the mind control

542
00:18:14,870 --> 00:18:12,799
agenda that we were keen on doing

543
00:18:16,230 --> 00:18:14,880
just kind of ran wild and it was that's

544
00:18:17,350 --> 00:18:16,240
what i think you're alluding to here

545
00:18:19,909 --> 00:18:17,360
it's like hey

546
00:18:21,270 --> 00:18:19,919
unification church moonies great what

547
00:18:24,470 --> 00:18:21,280
are they doing how can we do

548
00:18:26,549 --> 00:18:24,480
how can we profit from what they're

549
00:18:28,310 --> 00:18:26,559
learning oh it's abusive to people it's

550
00:18:29,669 --> 00:18:28,320
destroying people's lives ah don't worry

551
00:18:31,270 --> 00:18:29,679
about that maybe we can

552
00:18:34,710 --> 00:18:31,280
sprinkle it over here weaponize it over

553
00:18:38,150 --> 00:18:36,549
i don't want to shift gears too much and

554
00:18:41,270 --> 00:18:38,160
bounce all over the place

555
00:18:43,669 --> 00:18:41,280
but maybe tell us because we've talked

556
00:18:47,669 --> 00:18:43,679
about mca ultra quite a bit on this show

557
00:18:49,510 --> 00:18:47,679
how that also has the same

558
00:18:51,110 --> 00:18:49,520
pathway into this because that's when i

559
00:18:51,990 --> 00:18:51,120
think you you were alluding to that

560
00:18:53,990 --> 00:18:52,000
right in your brain

561
00:18:55,350 --> 00:18:54,000
yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i mean the

562
00:18:56,710 --> 00:18:55,360
presentation i was doing was called

563
00:18:58,630 --> 00:18:56,720
among the cybermen

564
00:19:00,150 --> 00:18:58,640
uh essentially the secret history of

565
00:19:01,909 --> 00:19:00,160
conspirators

566
00:19:03,270 --> 00:19:01,919
but yeah i mean a lot of this stuff sort

567
00:19:05,270 --> 00:19:03,280
of went back to

568
00:19:08,150 --> 00:19:05,280
um the initial macy's conference that

569
00:19:10,390 --> 00:19:08,160
was done in 1942 i believe which was

570
00:19:12,390 --> 00:19:10,400
sponsored by the macy foundation

571
00:19:14,390 --> 00:19:12,400
uh which incidentally also later became

572
00:19:15,190 --> 00:19:14,400
a major funding conduit of nk ultra

573
00:19:16,390 --> 00:19:15,200
later

574
00:19:18,390 --> 00:19:16,400
you brought together a lot of these

575
00:19:20,870 --> 00:19:18,400
prominent scientists psychologists

576
00:19:22,470 --> 00:19:20,880
this type of thing and this is uh really

577
00:19:23,750 --> 00:19:22,480
what produced the whole discipline of

578
00:19:25,190 --> 00:19:23,760
cybernetics which

579
00:19:27,750 --> 00:19:25,200
you know as i essentially argued in the

580
00:19:30,230 --> 00:19:27,760
presentation cybernetics is

581
00:19:32,310 --> 00:19:30,240
a very esoteric i mean almost occultic

582
00:19:33,110 --> 00:19:32,320
ideology i feel like it was essentially

583
00:19:35,750 --> 00:19:33,120
a way

584
00:19:37,750 --> 00:19:35,760
much like union psychology that was

585
00:19:39,830 --> 00:19:37,760
devised to rationalize really a lot of

586
00:19:40,630 --> 00:19:39,840
what were effectively occult doctrines

587
00:19:42,630 --> 00:19:40,640
and kind of apply

588
00:19:44,070 --> 00:19:42,640
some kind of scientific jargon to it so

589
00:19:45,430 --> 00:19:44,080
that you could get funding for this kind

590
00:19:47,190 --> 00:19:45,440
of stuff in a level that was really

591
00:19:48,390 --> 00:19:47,200
unprecedented in human history up to

592
00:19:50,789 --> 00:19:48,400
that point

593
00:19:51,669 --> 00:19:50,799
as you point out recluse it's it's not

594
00:19:54,950 --> 00:19:51,679
even

595
00:19:57,190 --> 00:19:54,960
like a leap there i mean you got

596
00:19:59,590 --> 00:19:57,200
you got references where they were doing

597
00:20:01,830 --> 00:19:59,600
occult practices they were doing

598
00:20:02,950 --> 00:20:01,840
when we say cold practices i mean they

599
00:20:06,149 --> 00:20:02,960
were trying to

600
00:20:09,270 --> 00:20:06,159
summon entities in order

601
00:20:11,750 --> 00:20:09,280
to see if they could affect these

602
00:20:15,110 --> 00:20:11,760
different things it isn't like

603
00:20:17,190 --> 00:20:15,120
obscure i mean it it is you know

604
00:20:18,630 --> 00:20:17,200
let's nail nail that down for us again

605
00:20:20,310 --> 00:20:18,640
because i'm kind of vague on

606
00:20:23,669 --> 00:20:20,320
the details but i remember i was stunned

607
00:20:25,909 --> 00:20:23,679
when with the stuff that you had there

608
00:20:27,590 --> 00:20:25,919
well i mean really a lot of i mean

609
00:20:29,669 --> 00:20:27,600
really a crucial thing i think to all

610
00:20:31,909 --> 00:20:29,679
this is synchronicity of course that was

611
00:20:33,750 --> 00:20:31,919
a big concept in jungian psychology but

612
00:20:35,190 --> 00:20:33,760
i also think cybernetics was offensive

613
00:20:35,750 --> 00:20:35,200
essentially trying to come up with a way

614
00:20:37,350 --> 00:20:35,760
of

615
00:20:39,350 --> 00:20:37,360
explaining this as well through the

616
00:20:40,310 --> 00:20:39,360
different orders of cybernetics and so

617
00:20:43,350 --> 00:20:40,320
forth

618
00:20:45,830 --> 00:20:43,360
but in cybernetics okay essentially

619
00:20:47,830 --> 00:20:45,840
all of the universe different subjects

620
00:20:49,590 --> 00:20:47,840
subsections of it are constructed by

621
00:20:51,669 --> 00:20:49,600
feedback and these different loops and

622
00:20:53,270 --> 00:20:51,679
so forth so there's positive feedback

623
00:20:54,630 --> 00:20:53,280
there's negative feedback

624
00:20:56,390 --> 00:20:54,640
negative feedback being systems

625
00:20:57,669 --> 00:20:56,400
sustaining positive feedback being

626
00:21:00,070 --> 00:20:57,679
chaotic

627
00:21:01,350 --> 00:21:00,080
law of attraction right yes well that's

628
00:21:03,029 --> 00:21:01,360
yeah it really is very much an

629
00:21:04,789 --> 00:21:03,039
explanation of the law of attractions

630
00:21:05,669 --> 00:21:04,799
essentially the secret any of that kind

631
00:21:07,430 --> 00:21:05,679
of stuff

632
00:21:09,110 --> 00:21:07,440
but yes every thought every action

633
00:21:10,789 --> 00:21:09,120
creates different feedback loops and

634
00:21:12,470 --> 00:21:10,799
they all bounce off of one another and

635
00:21:13,669 --> 00:21:12,480
so forth and that's what creates these

636
00:21:15,029 --> 00:21:13,679
systems

637
00:21:16,630 --> 00:21:15,039
and then of course you go through the

638
00:21:18,470 --> 00:21:16,640
different orders of cybernetics until

639
00:21:19,750 --> 00:21:18,480
you get to the mysterious third order of

640
00:21:22,630 --> 00:21:19,760
cybernetics

641
00:21:24,070 --> 00:21:22,640
and this is when you notice the system

642
00:21:26,549 --> 00:21:24,080
and the system notices you

643
00:21:27,830 --> 00:21:26,559
noticing the system and in theory and

644
00:21:29,590 --> 00:21:27,840
some of these more arcane

645
00:21:30,070 --> 00:21:29,600
interpretations of it this is what would

646
00:21:31,830 --> 00:21:30,080
produce

647
00:21:33,190 --> 00:21:31,840
a lot of effects of high strangeness

648
00:21:34,549 --> 00:21:33,200
this is when you would start having the

649
00:21:36,710 --> 00:21:34,559
poltergeist activities

650
00:21:38,230 --> 00:21:36,720
the ufos and all that other crazy stuff

651
00:21:38,710 --> 00:21:38,240
the mechanical elves whatever you want

652
00:21:40,710 --> 00:21:38,720
to say

653
00:21:42,390 --> 00:21:40,720
but i mean that's when things start

654
00:21:44,390 --> 00:21:42,400
getting really weird

655
00:21:45,830 --> 00:21:44,400
and you know it's my belief that

656
00:21:47,750 --> 00:21:45,840
essentially uh

657
00:21:50,549 --> 00:21:47,760
this was really what mk ultra was

658
00:21:52,070 --> 00:21:50,559
devised to explain essentially

659
00:21:53,830 --> 00:21:52,080
these different kinds of cybernetic

660
00:21:55,990 --> 00:21:53,840
principles uh also doing

661
00:21:58,310 --> 00:21:56,000
psychology and so forth and how

662
00:22:01,430 --> 00:21:58,320
effectively all these things

663
00:22:02,950 --> 00:22:01,440
affect reality itself more or less

664
00:22:05,029 --> 00:22:02,960
but just to be clear where i was going

665
00:22:07,830 --> 00:22:05,039
and correct me if i'm wrong here

666
00:22:08,630 --> 00:22:07,840
but so that's your setup if you will

667
00:22:13,270 --> 00:22:08,640
that's your

668
00:22:16,390 --> 00:22:13,280
uh your orientation intellectually

669
00:22:18,630 --> 00:22:16,400
academically it's what you're saying in

670
00:22:19,510 --> 00:22:18,640
your reports to your superiors as you're

671
00:22:21,430 --> 00:22:19,520
doing this

672
00:22:23,110 --> 00:22:21,440
but then when a guy walks in and says

673
00:22:26,149 --> 00:22:23,120
hey i'm a

674
00:22:27,669 --> 00:22:26,159
chaos magician i'm a wizard i'm a

675
00:22:30,870 --> 00:22:27,679
whatever i call myself

676
00:22:33,909 --> 00:22:30,880
i'm wicca whatever and i can make

677
00:22:36,310 --> 00:22:33,919
that happen i can manifest this or that

678
00:22:37,669 --> 00:22:36,320
inside of the framework that you've

679
00:22:39,430 --> 00:22:37,679
established

680
00:22:42,390 --> 00:22:39,440
well you can see where someone would be

681
00:22:45,590 --> 00:22:42,400
well god i've kind of already opened

682
00:22:45,990 --> 00:22:45,600
opened myself up to wanting to look at

683
00:22:48,950 --> 00:22:46,000
that

684
00:22:50,789 --> 00:22:48,960
so let's see if you can play my game and

685
00:22:53,270 --> 00:22:50,799
if you can then

686
00:22:54,310 --> 00:22:53,280
you know i'm in i mean this is a men who

687
00:22:57,430 --> 00:22:54,320
stare at goats

688
00:22:59,350 --> 00:22:57,440
kind of thing you know where yeah

689
00:23:01,270 --> 00:22:59,360
i mean absolutely but i mean also though

690
00:23:03,350 --> 00:23:01,280
there is that sort of connection as well

691
00:23:05,350 --> 00:23:03,360
that magic has essentially to

692
00:23:07,029 --> 00:23:05,360
uh public relations uh which was dealt

693
00:23:08,070 --> 00:23:07,039
with and what was euros and magic and

694
00:23:10,630 --> 00:23:08,080
renaissance and

695
00:23:12,230 --> 00:23:10,640
um psychological warfare for that matter

696
00:23:13,350 --> 00:23:12,240
too which is another reason why it would

697
00:23:15,190 --> 00:23:13,360
have been so

698
00:23:16,710 --> 00:23:15,200
fascinating to people involved in this i

699
00:23:19,190 --> 00:23:16,720
mean you know just look at um

700
00:23:20,950 --> 00:23:19,200
the roster crucial manifestos okay

701
00:23:22,950 --> 00:23:20,960
basically they were alarmed

702
00:23:25,029 --> 00:23:22,960
you know i mean they came out in what 16

703
00:23:26,789 --> 00:23:25,039
10 16 14 or something like that talking

704
00:23:27,990 --> 00:23:26,799
about this great fraternal brotherhood

705
00:23:30,710 --> 00:23:28,000
this secret society

706
00:23:32,230 --> 00:23:30,720
kind of it existed none of it but then

707
00:23:33,909 --> 00:23:32,240
suddenly you have this whole occult you

708
00:23:35,430 --> 00:23:33,919
know renaissance now i mean you've got

709
00:23:36,310 --> 00:23:35,440
masons and all these secret orders

710
00:23:38,470 --> 00:23:36,320
everywhere

711
00:23:40,149 --> 00:23:38,480
and that in essence is a magical working

712
00:23:42,070 --> 00:23:40,159
because you manifested something that

713
00:23:43,510 --> 00:23:42,080
did not exist previously

714
00:23:45,110 --> 00:23:43,520
and you did it through these you know

715
00:23:45,990 --> 00:23:45,120
these documents which were basically

716
00:23:48,950 --> 00:23:46,000
larps

717
00:23:50,950 --> 00:23:48,960
well here here's the here's the rub and

718
00:23:52,070 --> 00:23:50,960
again i hope anyone can follow this

719
00:23:53,269 --> 00:23:52,080
conversation because they're going to

720
00:23:56,070 --> 00:23:53,279
bounce all over the place

721
00:23:56,870 --> 00:23:56,080
but one of the central questions for me

722
00:24:01,350 --> 00:23:56,880
there

723
00:24:03,590 --> 00:24:01,360
reality thing so

724
00:24:05,269 --> 00:24:03,600
you know you kind of played it really

725
00:24:07,510 --> 00:24:05,279
straight there in saying

726
00:24:10,230 --> 00:24:07,520
they it was a larp and then they created

727
00:24:12,470 --> 00:24:10,240
it by these documents

728
00:24:13,510 --> 00:24:12,480
i might open it up and say did they

729
00:24:17,190 --> 00:24:13,520
create it by

730
00:24:20,230 --> 00:24:17,200
the collective

731
00:24:22,310 --> 00:24:20,240
consciousness of believing it's so

732
00:24:23,830 --> 00:24:22,320
and is this kind of a tulpa you know if

733
00:24:25,830 --> 00:24:23,840
you're familiar with the

734
00:24:27,750 --> 00:24:25,840
buddhist tibetan buddhist concept of you

735
00:24:29,990 --> 00:24:27,760
know this thought creation kind of thing

736
00:24:31,350 --> 00:24:30,000
which to me just seems obvious we see it

737
00:24:33,430 --> 00:24:31,360
over and over again

738
00:24:34,710 --> 00:24:33,440
especially in this extended realm where

739
00:24:37,669 --> 00:24:34,720
people are contacting

740
00:24:39,750 --> 00:24:37,679
spirit entities and they're manifesting

741
00:24:41,430 --> 00:24:39,760
spirit enemies that don't even exist and

742
00:24:42,950 --> 00:24:41,440
yet these spirit enemies are coming back

743
00:24:45,830 --> 00:24:42,960
and

744
00:24:46,950 --> 00:24:45,840
now they do exist you know we we did i

745
00:24:49,830 --> 00:24:46,960
did a bunch of interviews

746
00:24:50,470 --> 00:24:49,840
on this evil thing and you look at satan

747
00:24:53,909 --> 00:24:50,480
that is

748
00:24:56,149 --> 00:24:53,919
satan because you look all the way back

749
00:24:57,830 --> 00:24:56,159
you know in the the jews and the oldest

750
00:25:00,310 --> 00:24:57,840
writings they don't have satan

751
00:25:02,310 --> 00:25:00,320
and then zoryasser comes along and and

752
00:25:03,830 --> 00:25:02,320
he you know kind of has this good bad

753
00:25:07,110 --> 00:25:03,840
you know kind of thing saying

754
00:25:09,830 --> 00:25:07,120
next thing you know the same stories

755
00:25:11,430 --> 00:25:09,840
that were in the old torah you know now

756
00:25:12,070 --> 00:25:11,440
they're showing up again and now a

757
00:25:16,470 --> 00:25:12,080
character

758
00:25:19,430 --> 00:25:16,480
but would anyone at this

759
00:25:20,390 --> 00:25:19,440
so it's it's obviously literature to

760
00:25:23,110 --> 00:25:20,400
some degree

761
00:25:24,870 --> 00:25:23,120
but would anyone at this point deny that

762
00:25:27,190 --> 00:25:24,880
there is some

763
00:25:28,310 --> 00:25:27,200
satan something that i i shouldn't say

764
00:25:30,070 --> 00:25:28,320
anyone because a lot of people would

765
00:25:33,430 --> 00:25:30,080
deny it but

766
00:25:35,909 --> 00:25:33,440
it also seems definitely a possibility

767
00:25:36,630 --> 00:25:35,919
that we have now through our collective

768
00:25:39,669 --> 00:25:36,640
consciousness

769
00:25:41,669 --> 00:25:39,679
created exactly what we've

770
00:25:43,510 --> 00:25:41,679
talked about for the last two 000 years

771
00:25:43,830 --> 00:25:43,520
and people have put all this energy into

772
00:25:47,990 --> 00:25:43,840
and

773
00:25:49,750 --> 00:25:48,000
that stuff so are we co-creators of this

774
00:25:51,350 --> 00:25:49,760
reality and how do we pull that out of

775
00:25:52,870 --> 00:25:51,360
this whole thing

776
00:25:54,710 --> 00:25:52,880
well i mean yeah it's definitely

777
00:25:56,230 --> 00:25:54,720
something you have to consider i mean i

778
00:25:57,990 --> 00:25:56,240
don't know that

779
00:25:59,510 --> 00:25:58,000
everyone who signed one of this believed

780
00:26:01,190 --> 00:25:59,520
that but i mean i do certainly think

781
00:26:02,630 --> 00:26:01,200
that there were some people in very

782
00:26:04,390 --> 00:26:02,640
senior levels of the government in the

783
00:26:06,390 --> 00:26:04,400
intelligence community that did come to

784
00:26:08,070 --> 00:26:06,400
believe very much that we could create

785
00:26:09,909 --> 00:26:08,080
our own realities

786
00:26:11,590 --> 00:26:09,919
by manifesting these beliefs on a

787
00:26:13,350 --> 00:26:11,600
popular enough level in the public at

788
00:26:16,149 --> 00:26:13,360
large i mean it is a

789
00:26:18,310 --> 00:26:16,159
fascinating concept but i mean you know

790
00:26:20,549 --> 00:26:18,320
two though it also begs the question is

791
00:26:22,390 --> 00:26:20,559
it just any individual or is it specific

792
00:26:23,669 --> 00:26:22,400
individuals as well i mean i don't know

793
00:26:24,710 --> 00:26:23,679
i'm sure you probably read american

794
00:26:27,029 --> 00:26:24,720
cosmos right

795
00:26:28,390 --> 00:26:27,039
um that's sort of a book where they get

796
00:26:29,990 --> 00:26:28,400
into some of these notions about

797
00:26:33,029 --> 00:26:30,000
possibly through being genetic

798
00:26:34,390 --> 00:26:33,039
um you know some kind of genetic code or

799
00:26:36,230 --> 00:26:34,400
something like that for people who

800
00:26:37,029 --> 00:26:36,240
experience high strangers and that type

801
00:26:38,310 --> 00:26:37,039
of thing

802
00:26:40,230 --> 00:26:38,320
i mean i'll tell you something really

803
00:26:42,149 --> 00:26:40,240
weird that sort of relates to this okay

804
00:26:44,070 --> 00:26:42,159
so i'm working on this podcast right now

805
00:26:45,990 --> 00:26:44,080
penny royal which is affiliated with uh

806
00:26:46,470 --> 00:26:46,000
the hell your show that's on amazon and

807
00:26:51,110 --> 00:26:46,480
whatnot

808
00:26:53,190 --> 00:26:51,120
had a lot of strange meetings with the

809
00:26:54,789 --> 00:26:53,200
guys who do this the penny royal guys

810
00:26:55,830 --> 00:26:54,799
they're a series of synchronicities and

811
00:26:58,230 --> 00:26:55,840
whatnot

812
00:26:58,870 --> 00:26:58,240
but um and talking to them i figured out

813
00:27:00,870 --> 00:26:58,880
that

814
00:27:02,310 --> 00:27:00,880
all three of us have been tested uh as

815
00:27:03,830 --> 00:27:02,320
gifted children

816
00:27:05,909 --> 00:27:03,840
and that's interesting to me because

817
00:27:07,269 --> 00:27:05,919
gifted testing essentially looks for

818
00:27:09,029 --> 00:27:07,279
students that have unusual high

819
00:27:10,549 --> 00:27:09,039
abilities for pattern recognition

820
00:27:12,390 --> 00:27:10,559
seeing different things that aren't

821
00:27:14,470 --> 00:27:12,400
usually evident to people in different

822
00:27:16,950 --> 00:27:14,480
disciplines and so forth

823
00:27:18,549 --> 00:27:16,960
so you get people like us involved in

824
00:27:19,430 --> 00:27:18,559
something like this and it does kind of

825
00:27:21,190 --> 00:27:19,440
beg the question

826
00:27:22,789 --> 00:27:21,200
well is this kind of making the whole

827
00:27:25,190 --> 00:27:22,799
experience that we're having looking

828
00:27:26,630 --> 00:27:25,200
into these things even stranger because

829
00:27:28,230 --> 00:27:26,640
we have had a lot of that you know

830
00:27:29,590 --> 00:27:28,240
different leads and researches i mean i

831
00:27:31,830 --> 00:27:29,600
know just talking to the penny royal

832
00:27:33,830 --> 00:27:31,840
guys they start looking at this area

833
00:27:35,590 --> 00:27:33,840
they pick up on one cult possibly being

834
00:27:37,269 --> 00:27:35,600
active here and then after studying it

835
00:27:39,029 --> 00:27:37,279
for almost two years there's like half a

836
00:27:41,029 --> 00:27:39,039
dozen cults that they found

837
00:27:42,310 --> 00:27:41,039
so at some point we have sort of stepped

838
00:27:43,909 --> 00:27:42,320
back and wondered

839
00:27:45,510 --> 00:27:43,919
were all these cults really here before

840
00:27:48,950 --> 00:27:45,520
we started looking at it

841
00:27:50,870 --> 00:27:48,960
or who knows you know but i mean it is a

842
00:27:52,789 --> 00:27:50,880
strange thing and i do

843
00:27:55,110 --> 00:27:52,799
you know i try to sit on the fence as

844
00:27:56,549 --> 00:27:55,120
much as this as i possibly can

845
00:27:58,230 --> 00:27:56,559
but on the flip side of the coin i've

846
00:27:59,990 --> 00:27:58,240
had some strange experiences

847
00:28:01,830 --> 00:28:00,000
this that i have to wonder in some level

848
00:28:04,310 --> 00:28:01,840
how much belief really does manifest the

849
00:28:06,710 --> 00:28:04,320
reality that we live in and specifically

850
00:28:08,470 --> 00:28:06,720
is it also particular individuals who

851
00:28:09,110 --> 00:28:08,480
are manipulated in the beliefs who have

852
00:28:11,430 --> 00:28:09,120
a higher

853
00:28:12,389 --> 00:28:11,440
capacity to influence this type of thing

854
00:28:14,630 --> 00:28:12,399
as artists or

855
00:28:16,789 --> 00:28:14,640
you know any other type of medium oh but

856
00:28:19,350 --> 00:28:16,799
it is very strange

857
00:28:21,350 --> 00:28:19,360
see that's a super interesting question

858
00:28:25,830 --> 00:28:21,360
isn't it and that's kind of a next

859
00:28:27,830 --> 00:28:25,840
level question um which is

860
00:28:29,990 --> 00:28:27,840
unless a next level to me what that

861
00:28:31,510 --> 00:28:30,000
means is

862
00:28:33,269 --> 00:28:31,520
once you get past the idea that we're

863
00:28:34,549 --> 00:28:33,279
co-creators of this reality

864
00:28:36,710 --> 00:28:34,559
right which you can sit there and

865
00:28:39,590 --> 00:28:36,720
wrestle someone back and forth

866
00:28:41,350 --> 00:28:39,600
but screw that just take that as a given

867
00:28:43,590 --> 00:28:41,360
and now start asking the questions that

868
00:28:46,950 --> 00:28:43,600
you're asking which is just an awesome

869
00:28:50,630 --> 00:28:46,960
opening question are some people

870
00:28:53,110 --> 00:28:50,640
more effective at manifesting

871
00:28:54,470 --> 00:28:53,120
a consensus reality that we can all

872
00:28:57,269 --> 00:28:54,480
experience

873
00:28:58,549 --> 00:28:57,279
than other people wow what an

874
00:29:01,029 --> 00:28:58,559
interesting question

875
00:29:01,909 --> 00:29:01,039
and then you you tied it into another

876
00:29:05,190 --> 00:29:01,919
question there

877
00:29:07,269 --> 00:29:05,200
is that you know so you

878
00:29:09,909 --> 00:29:07,279
had certain traits when you were born

879
00:29:14,149 --> 00:29:09,919
and they called them gifted

880
00:29:17,269 --> 00:29:14,159
is there possibly a genetic

881
00:29:20,870 --> 00:29:17,279
tie to that correlation to that um

882
00:29:23,990 --> 00:29:20,880
and do multiple people share that

883
00:29:24,470 --> 00:29:24,000
genetic makeup if we were able to look

884
00:29:26,230 --> 00:29:24,480
at it

885
00:29:27,830 --> 00:29:26,240
which again to me you know we can't

886
00:29:30,870 --> 00:29:27,840
avoid the uh

887
00:29:33,110 --> 00:29:30,880
the et ufo thing and

888
00:29:35,830 --> 00:29:33,120
it always surprises me when that doesn't

889
00:29:37,510 --> 00:29:35,840
come into these conversations because

890
00:29:39,110 --> 00:29:37,520
it's so front and center i don't know

891
00:29:41,669 --> 00:29:39,120
how we're leaving it out so

892
00:29:43,190 --> 00:29:41,679
one of the things i pinged you with

893
00:29:44,710 --> 00:29:43,200
beforehand

894
00:29:46,630 --> 00:29:44,720
because we're going to talk about this

895
00:29:49,750 --> 00:29:46,640
and i don't know where you're at

896
00:29:53,430 --> 00:29:49,760
on this so i thought it'd be interesting

897
00:29:55,110 --> 00:29:53,440
but i interviewed ufo researcher grant

898
00:29:56,789 --> 00:29:55,120
cameron i've interviewed him several

899
00:29:58,149 --> 00:29:56,799
times i kind of pissed him off the last

900
00:30:01,269 --> 00:29:58,159
time so i don't know if we'll

901
00:30:02,789 --> 00:30:01,279
do it again but he's done some fantastic

902
00:30:04,470 --> 00:30:02,799
work over the years

903
00:30:06,149 --> 00:30:04,480
but one of the things that he did that

904
00:30:09,830 --> 00:30:06,159
always stuck with me

905
00:30:13,669 --> 00:30:09,840
is he along with the

906
00:30:15,269 --> 00:30:13,679
late great uh stanton freeman who

907
00:30:17,350 --> 00:30:15,279
recently passed away

908
00:30:18,470 --> 00:30:17,360
did a freedom of information act in

909
00:30:21,269 --> 00:30:18,480
canada

910
00:30:23,350 --> 00:30:21,279
and it's kind of like i i'm sure you've

911
00:30:23,830 --> 00:30:23,360
done a lot of foia requests i have not

912
00:30:25,190 --> 00:30:23,840
but

913
00:30:27,110 --> 00:30:25,200
you know every once in a while you get a

914
00:30:28,389 --> 00:30:27,120
little gem that just pops up and these

915
00:30:31,750 --> 00:30:28,399
guys got a gem

916
00:30:33,510 --> 00:30:31,760
when the wilbert smith memo was released

917
00:30:34,389 --> 00:30:33,520
and wilbert smith was kind of running

918
00:30:37,190 --> 00:30:34,399
the strange

919
00:30:38,070 --> 00:30:37,200
desk in canada if you will at the time

920
00:30:41,190 --> 00:30:38,080
in the 50s

921
00:30:43,510 --> 00:30:41,200
so this is where all the supposedly just

922
00:30:45,510 --> 00:30:43,520
radio waves and stuff were thing but he

923
00:30:47,029 --> 00:30:45,520
was also getting all the ufo reports

924
00:30:48,710 --> 00:30:47,039
so the weirdest i mean those were the

925
00:30:50,310 --> 00:30:48,720
guys specifically tasked

926
00:30:51,750 --> 00:30:50,320
i think really was trying to understand

927
00:30:53,350 --> 00:30:51,760
a lot of this phenomena in the first

928
00:30:54,789 --> 00:30:53,360
place i mean that in itself is very

929
00:30:57,190 --> 00:30:54,799
significant

930
00:30:59,029 --> 00:30:57,200
absolutely and and so i'm just gonna

931
00:31:00,549 --> 00:30:59,039
retell this story for the benefit of the

932
00:31:02,230 --> 00:31:00,559
audience even though a lot of people

933
00:31:03,029 --> 00:31:02,240
listen this show i've heard it 50 times

934
00:31:06,310 --> 00:31:03,039
before

935
00:31:07,990 --> 00:31:06,320
but wilbert smith is there and so he

936
00:31:09,430 --> 00:31:08,000
starts collecting all the the reports

937
00:31:11,590 --> 00:31:09,440
are landing on his desk and eventually

938
00:31:12,950 --> 00:31:11,600
goes to his bus and he goes

939
00:31:14,870 --> 00:31:12,960
we gotta figure you know something's

940
00:31:16,789 --> 00:31:14,880
going on here how about

941
00:31:17,990 --> 00:31:16,799
you know we go talk to the yanks and see

942
00:31:20,950 --> 00:31:18,000
what they know

943
00:31:22,630 --> 00:31:20,960
and so he goes yeah let's do it so he

944
00:31:24,389 --> 00:31:22,640
starts sharing stuff and that's probably

945
00:31:26,149 --> 00:31:24,399
the only reason they let him in the tent

946
00:31:29,590 --> 00:31:26,159
down here in the united states

947
00:31:30,389 --> 00:31:29,600
is he she shared some [\h__\h] and they were

948
00:31:32,230 --> 00:31:30,399
like whoa

949
00:31:34,230 --> 00:31:32,240
come on down you got some good stuff

950
00:31:34,630 --> 00:31:34,240
that we want too so he goes down he

951
00:31:36,789 --> 00:31:34,640
meets

952
00:31:37,669 --> 00:31:36,799
all the the right people band of our

953
00:31:40,630 --> 00:31:37,679
bush and

954
00:31:42,310 --> 00:31:40,640
you know he names names in this secret

955
00:31:44,149 --> 00:31:42,320
memo that is later released

956
00:31:46,149 --> 00:31:44,159
but the other thing he releases in this

957
00:31:49,190 --> 00:31:46,159
memo which ties back

958
00:31:51,190 --> 00:31:49,200
to i guess the cybernetics mk

959
00:31:52,630 --> 00:31:51,200
ultra you know what these guys were

960
00:31:56,230 --> 00:31:52,640
really up to thing

961
00:31:59,430 --> 00:31:56,240
he said to not bury the lead his memo

962
00:32:02,789 --> 00:31:59,440
is that ufo thing is real

963
00:32:05,990 --> 00:32:02,799
e.t is real it is the highest

964
00:32:08,310 --> 00:32:06,000
most important most secret secret

965
00:32:10,549 --> 00:32:08,320
that the u.s has higher than the

966
00:32:11,350 --> 00:32:10,559
hydrogen bomb so imagine the 50s this is

967
00:32:13,430 --> 00:32:11,360
like

968
00:32:16,230 --> 00:32:13,440
say higher than hydrogen bomb you're up

969
00:32:19,269 --> 00:32:16,240
there but then in the last

970
00:32:21,830 --> 00:32:19,279
sentence what these guys picked up on is

971
00:32:22,870 --> 00:32:21,840
that it has something to do with a

972
00:32:26,630 --> 00:32:22,880
mental

973
00:32:29,750 --> 00:32:26,640
phenomenon now that

974
00:32:32,870 --> 00:32:29,760
catapults us into a different

975
00:32:36,310 --> 00:32:32,880
kind of space what it says is that

976
00:32:37,110 --> 00:32:36,320
they had made contact with e.t and made

977
00:32:39,430 --> 00:32:37,120
contact

978
00:32:40,950 --> 00:32:39,440
at this telepathic level although we're

979
00:32:41,590 --> 00:32:40,960
not even sure that that's the right word

980
00:32:43,590 --> 00:32:41,600
for it

981
00:32:46,230 --> 00:32:43,600
but in this extended realm they had

982
00:32:48,470 --> 00:32:46,240
connected with e.t

983
00:32:50,789 --> 00:32:48,480
and that they believed that it was

984
00:32:51,990 --> 00:32:50,799
necessary to better understand that

985
00:32:54,710 --> 00:32:52,000
extended realm

986
00:32:55,990 --> 00:32:54,720
because this was both a threat and an

987
00:32:59,029 --> 00:32:56,000
opportunity like these guys

988
00:33:02,950 --> 00:32:59,039
always look at everything and so

989
00:33:05,350 --> 00:33:02,960
grant's view is in and really my

990
00:33:06,710 --> 00:33:05,360
i've kind of pushed this is that that

991
00:33:09,990 --> 00:33:06,720
has to be

992
00:33:12,870 --> 00:33:10,000
factored into the equation with mk

993
00:33:13,830 --> 00:33:12,880
ultra that that had to be maybe one of

994
00:33:16,149 --> 00:33:13,840
the agendas

995
00:33:17,750 --> 00:33:16,159
in terms of we got to figure this out

996
00:33:19,909 --> 00:33:17,760
because

997
00:33:23,590 --> 00:33:19,919
we're already talking to et and we ain't

998
00:33:26,549 --> 00:33:23,600
talking through them through no radio

999
00:33:27,190 --> 00:33:26,559
oh yeah absolutely well i mean again you

1000
00:33:29,990 --> 00:33:27,200
know

1001
00:33:31,990 --> 00:33:30,000
my kind of working theory on the the

1002
00:33:33,750 --> 00:33:32,000
obsession with the ufo phenomenon sort

1003
00:33:35,029 --> 00:33:33,760
of ties into what we've been discussing

1004
00:33:37,830 --> 00:33:35,039
about um

1005
00:33:38,630 --> 00:33:37,840
belief potentially manifesting reality

1006
00:33:40,389 --> 00:33:38,640
see there were

1007
00:33:42,470 --> 00:33:40,399
two really excellent books that were

1008
00:33:44,710 --> 00:33:42,480
written by um

1009
00:33:46,389 --> 00:33:44,720
james carrion i believe his name is one

1010
00:33:48,470 --> 00:33:46,399
is the rosetta deception and the other

1011
00:33:51,269 --> 00:33:48,480
one is the roswell deception

1012
00:33:52,789 --> 00:33:51,279
and he does a really great job of laying

1013
00:33:54,950 --> 00:33:52,799
out how some of these early ufo

1014
00:33:56,389 --> 00:33:54,960
encounters were effectively uh deception

1015
00:33:58,789 --> 00:33:56,399
operations that the us

1016
00:34:00,710 --> 00:33:58,799
and the uk were running and specifically

1017
00:34:01,269 --> 00:34:00,720
with the ghost rocket flap that you had

1018
00:34:04,789 --> 00:34:01,279
in the

1019
00:34:05,509 --> 00:34:04,799
aftermath of the second world war

1020
00:34:07,990 --> 00:34:05,519
basically

1021
00:34:08,950 --> 00:34:08,000
to convince the soviets that there were

1022
00:34:10,869 --> 00:34:08,960
these you know

1023
00:34:12,389 --> 00:34:10,879
super weapons this actually terrestrial

1024
00:34:14,069 --> 00:34:12,399
race and what have you around so that

1025
00:34:15,430 --> 00:34:14,079
they would you know invest tons of money

1026
00:34:17,190 --> 00:34:15,440
looking into this and

1027
00:34:18,550 --> 00:34:17,200
i know that sounds outlandish but this

1028
00:34:19,909 --> 00:34:18,560
is the type of thing that we really did

1029
00:34:21,270 --> 00:34:19,919
throughout the cold war i mean the

1030
00:34:22,389 --> 00:34:21,280
strategic defense initiative for

1031
00:34:23,669 --> 00:34:22,399
instance we never really thought

1032
00:34:25,669 --> 00:34:23,679
work it was just a way to get the

1033
00:34:27,270 --> 00:34:25,679
soviets to waste money

1034
00:34:28,950 --> 00:34:27,280
okay so we're doing all these deception

1035
00:34:30,389 --> 00:34:28,960
operations and at the highest levels of

1036
00:34:31,909 --> 00:34:30,399
government you know we know these things

1037
00:34:33,430 --> 00:34:31,919
aren't real right

1038
00:34:35,109 --> 00:34:33,440
but then i think something happened that

1039
00:34:38,149 --> 00:34:35,119
really shook everybody

1040
00:34:38,629 --> 00:34:38,159
they actually started to appear nobody

1041
00:34:41,669 --> 00:34:38,639
had

1042
00:34:43,190 --> 00:34:41,679
any idea why they were showing off

1043
00:34:44,950 --> 00:34:43,200
because they weren't supposed to exist

1044
00:34:45,990 --> 00:34:44,960
we knew that they weren't supposed to

1045
00:34:47,430 --> 00:34:46,000
exist

1046
00:34:48,790 --> 00:34:47,440
and this was roughly right around the

1047
00:34:51,510 --> 00:34:48,800
time when you start seeing all these

1048
00:34:53,669 --> 00:34:51,520
projects initiating chatter bluebird

1049
00:34:55,190 --> 00:34:53,679
uh the early ones initially with the

1050
00:34:57,030 --> 00:34:55,200
navy and then going into the

1051
00:34:58,790 --> 00:34:57,040
ultra stuff and so forth and it's also

1052
00:34:59,990 --> 00:34:58,800
when a lot of these weird desks started

1053
00:35:01,430 --> 00:35:00,000
to show up too which

1054
00:35:03,589 --> 00:35:01,440
were never designed to just look at the

1055
00:35:04,870 --> 00:35:03,599
ufo stuff but all kinds of unusual and

1056
00:35:06,630 --> 00:35:04,880
unexplainable phenomenon

1057
00:35:07,990 --> 00:35:06,640
essentially kind of x-files divisions

1058
00:35:11,270 --> 00:35:08,000
for each you know major branch

1059
00:35:13,109 --> 00:35:11,280
us intelligence services so

1060
00:35:15,190 --> 00:35:13,119
you realize essentially that something

1061
00:35:16,710 --> 00:35:15,200
exists now that's not supposed to exist

1062
00:35:17,990 --> 00:35:16,720
and probably one of the most logical

1063
00:35:18,790 --> 00:35:18,000
explanations would have been this that

1064
00:35:20,550 --> 00:35:18,800
belief

1065
00:35:21,589 --> 00:35:20,560
factored into it i mean this was already

1066
00:35:23,750 --> 00:35:21,599
something that you're starting to see

1067
00:35:24,630 --> 00:35:23,760
currents pop up in psychology and so

1068
00:35:26,069 --> 00:35:24,640
forth

1069
00:35:27,670 --> 00:35:26,079
so i mean the next step from there

1070
00:35:29,589 --> 00:35:27,680
probably would have been logically to

1071
00:35:30,950 --> 00:35:29,599
see if you could actually contact us i

1072
00:35:32,150 --> 00:35:30,960
mean why not right

1073
00:35:33,829 --> 00:35:32,160
and if you're already doing it through

1074
00:35:35,030 --> 00:35:33,839
all these kind of kooky beans you know

1075
00:35:36,710 --> 00:35:35,040
going into stuff about belief

1076
00:35:38,390 --> 00:35:36,720
manifesting things well

1077
00:35:40,790 --> 00:35:38,400
who would be the people who would best

1078
00:35:42,630 --> 00:35:40,800
understand how to rationalize this and

1079
00:35:44,390 --> 00:35:42,640
contact something like that

1080
00:35:45,910 --> 00:35:44,400
well magicians you know they had already

1081
00:35:47,670 --> 00:35:45,920
been talking a lot about how belief

1082
00:35:49,109 --> 00:35:47,680
could be used to manifest reality for a

1083
00:35:50,950 --> 00:35:49,119
long time now

1084
00:35:52,470 --> 00:35:50,960
so that's when i think you start seeing

1085
00:35:53,910 --> 00:35:52,480
all these weird characters get brought

1086
00:35:54,630 --> 00:35:53,920
in i mean you have guys like katrina

1087
00:35:56,390 --> 00:35:54,640
kuharik

1088
00:35:57,990 --> 00:35:56,400
um the guy who would channel the nine

1089
00:35:58,710 --> 00:35:58,000
the so-called seance that changed the

1090
00:35:59,990 --> 00:35:58,720
world

1091
00:36:02,550 --> 00:36:00,000
was put onto that path by a

1092
00:36:03,829 --> 00:36:02,560
cyberneticist so i think that's sort of

1093
00:36:06,310 --> 00:36:03,839
where we got into some of this

1094
00:36:08,069 --> 00:36:06,320
stuff could we also contact these you

1095
00:36:09,750 --> 00:36:08,079
know so-called non-human intelligence or

1096
00:36:12,310 --> 00:36:09,760
what have you

1097
00:36:13,190 --> 00:36:12,320
see the problem i have with that is i

1098
00:36:16,470 --> 00:36:13,200
think that the

1099
00:36:18,069 --> 00:36:16,480
evidence for the ancient alien theory

1100
00:36:19,349 --> 00:36:18,079
for lack of a better term and

1101
00:36:21,589 --> 00:36:19,359
a lot of people hate that because they

1102
00:36:23,270 --> 00:36:21,599
hate the show i don't hate on the show i

1103
00:36:23,829 --> 00:36:23,280
think the show really kind of did a lot

1104
00:36:29,750 --> 00:36:23,839
of good

1105
00:36:31,510 --> 00:36:29,760
the evidence for that really stacks up

1106
00:36:34,950 --> 00:36:31,520
to the point of being

1107
00:36:38,230 --> 00:36:34,960
overwhelming particularly when you go to

1108
00:36:41,270 --> 00:36:38,240
cross culture cross time you know

1109
00:36:43,109 --> 00:36:41,280
and you go and you look at these tribes

1110
00:36:44,870 --> 00:36:43,119
in africa that have no contact with the

1111
00:36:46,870 --> 00:36:44,880
outside world and don't have a written

1112
00:36:48,710 --> 00:36:46,880
language and say yeah you know they're

1113
00:36:49,910 --> 00:36:48,720
wearing the headgear and the spacesuits

1114
00:36:52,950 --> 00:36:49,920
and they're

1115
00:36:54,790 --> 00:36:52,960
pointing to the pleiades and saying well

1116
00:36:56,550 --> 00:36:54,800
yeah yeah yeah and i don't necessarily

1117
00:36:58,470 --> 00:36:56,560
think that it does discount prior

1118
00:37:00,550 --> 00:36:58,480
contact with the same entities either

1119
00:37:01,990 --> 00:37:00,560
before you know the cold war era but see

1120
00:37:02,870 --> 00:37:02,000
something else i'll point out with that

1121
00:37:04,710 --> 00:37:02,880
as well

1122
00:37:06,550 --> 00:37:04,720
when you get into these early deception

1123
00:37:08,150 --> 00:37:06,560
operations they grew out of

1124
00:37:10,069 --> 00:37:08,160
a lot of the british efforts and what

1125
00:37:12,230 --> 00:37:10,079
have you that were organized around

1126
00:37:13,270 --> 00:37:12,240
the political warfare executive and so

1127
00:37:15,030 --> 00:37:13,280
forth

1128
00:37:16,470 --> 00:37:15,040
and you know a lot of guys involved in

1129
00:37:19,750 --> 00:37:16,480
that were people like

1130
00:37:21,270 --> 00:37:19,760
his name ronald ian fleming um

1131
00:37:23,270 --> 00:37:21,280
people that were in contact with a lot

1132
00:37:24,630 --> 00:37:23,280
of proliaits or people that knew a lot

1133
00:37:26,150 --> 00:37:24,640
of prominent occultists who were

1134
00:37:27,750 --> 00:37:26,160
initially tapped with doing these

1135
00:37:29,349 --> 00:37:27,760
deception operations

1136
00:37:30,950 --> 00:37:29,359
it kind of begs the question where were

1137
00:37:32,790 --> 00:37:30,960
they always magical workings in the

1138
00:37:34,310 --> 00:37:32,800
first place and their superiors had no

1139
00:37:36,069 --> 00:37:34,320
idea that they were

1140
00:37:37,670 --> 00:37:36,079
i mean certainly this is also concurrent

1141
00:37:39,349 --> 00:37:37,680
around the same time that jack parsons

1142
00:37:40,870 --> 00:37:39,359
is out there going to babylon working

1143
00:37:43,349 --> 00:37:40,880
and so forth

1144
00:37:44,790 --> 00:37:43,359
so i mean i don't i personally don't

1145
00:37:46,710 --> 00:37:44,800
think the belief alone is what

1146
00:37:47,349 --> 00:37:46,720
manifested the things i think that they

1147
00:37:49,670 --> 00:37:47,359
definitely

1148
00:37:50,950 --> 00:37:49,680
existed prior to that because it's like

1149
00:37:54,550 --> 00:37:50,960
i fast forward to

1150
00:37:57,349 --> 00:37:54,560
um have you read uh diana walsh

1151
00:37:57,990 --> 00:37:57,359
posalka's book american cosmetics oh

1152
00:37:59,910 --> 00:37:58,000
yeah

1153
00:38:01,270 --> 00:37:59,920
so did you do a show have you ever

1154
00:38:02,870 --> 00:38:01,280
talked to her

1155
00:38:04,150 --> 00:38:02,880
no no i would like to at some point i've

1156
00:38:05,190 --> 00:38:04,160
been telling her agent about that for a

1157
00:38:07,109 --> 00:38:05,200
little bit now

1158
00:38:08,470 --> 00:38:07,119
yeah you know she was doing she did an

1159
00:38:09,829 --> 00:38:08,480
interview with me back when she was

1160
00:38:10,630 --> 00:38:09,839
doing more interviews and then i think

1161
00:38:12,870 --> 00:38:10,640
she got

1162
00:38:14,790 --> 00:38:12,880
you know kind of interview weary a

1163
00:38:16,390 --> 00:38:14,800
little bit which we understand and

1164
00:38:18,790 --> 00:38:16,400
you know maybe she'll come back around

1165
00:38:21,829 --> 00:38:18,800
and and that kind of stuff but

1166
00:38:24,390 --> 00:38:21,839
that book to me is phenomenal

1167
00:38:25,990 --> 00:38:24,400
in so many ways and you know one of the

1168
00:38:27,670 --> 00:38:26,000
things that this is like a total

1169
00:38:29,510 --> 00:38:27,680
side to me but it's like so critical

1170
00:38:32,150 --> 00:38:29,520
she's catholic you know she's still

1171
00:38:34,069 --> 00:38:32,160
catholic that kind of a not a strict

1172
00:38:34,470 --> 00:38:34,079
catholic and kind of very open-minded

1173
00:38:38,390 --> 00:38:34,480
and

1174
00:38:40,950 --> 00:38:38,400
a really tenured professor

1175
00:38:41,829 --> 00:38:40,960
in religious studies so she's not like

1176
00:38:44,150 --> 00:38:41,839
you know

1177
00:38:44,870 --> 00:38:44,160
strictly religious person but the fact

1178
00:38:48,069 --> 00:38:44,880
that she's

1179
00:38:51,510 --> 00:38:48,079
out in the desert finding

1180
00:38:56,390 --> 00:38:51,520
crashed alien space junk that is being

1181
00:38:59,349 --> 00:38:56,400
reverse engineered directly into

1182
00:39:00,950 --> 00:38:59,359
multi-million dollar patents that her

1183
00:39:04,390 --> 00:39:00,960
gucci wearing buddy

1184
00:39:08,630 --> 00:39:04,400
is flying around on private jets kind of

1185
00:39:11,670 --> 00:39:08,640
drives a stake in the ground in terms of

1186
00:39:13,670 --> 00:39:11,680
the reality of this stuff because money

1187
00:39:16,470 --> 00:39:13,680
does that you know when someone's

1188
00:39:17,589 --> 00:39:16,480
cashing in that much just from the junk

1189
00:39:21,190 --> 00:39:17,599
and it also

1190
00:39:23,910 --> 00:39:21,200
drives a stake in the ground in terms of

1191
00:39:25,750 --> 00:39:23,920
i don't know something akin to a

1192
00:39:29,190 --> 00:39:25,760
breakaway civilization

1193
00:39:30,870 --> 00:39:29,200
at least a breakaway academia where

1194
00:39:32,630 --> 00:39:30,880
there are some people are in the know on

1195
00:39:36,230 --> 00:39:32,640
this and then there's just a bunch of

1196
00:39:38,950 --> 00:39:36,240
other people who are just completely

1197
00:39:40,230 --> 00:39:38,960
ignorant of it and most importantly

1198
00:39:43,270 --> 00:39:40,240
those are the people that we

1199
00:39:44,069 --> 00:39:43,280
normally would go to to say is this

1200
00:39:46,950 --> 00:39:44,079
stuff real

1201
00:39:48,710 --> 00:39:46,960
and you know it in a way it ties back to

1202
00:39:51,109 --> 00:39:48,720
the very first

1203
00:39:53,030 --> 00:39:51,119
question that i guess i was driving at

1204
00:39:57,270 --> 00:39:53,040
with you recluse is that

1205
00:40:01,349 --> 00:39:57,280
to me the kind of research you're doing

1206
00:40:04,470 --> 00:40:01,359
the parapolitical research is the new

1207
00:40:08,710 --> 00:40:04,480
standard for how to know because

1208
00:40:11,589 --> 00:40:08,720
if you do have this breakaway academia

1209
00:40:12,550 --> 00:40:11,599
you're never going there they that's a

1210
00:40:14,230 --> 00:40:12,560
fight club kind of

1211
00:40:15,670 --> 00:40:14,240
situation right the first rule of fight

1212
00:40:18,150 --> 00:40:15,680
clubs don't so the first rule of

1213
00:40:20,390 --> 00:40:18,160
breakaway academia is don't tell anyone

1214
00:40:22,710 --> 00:40:20,400
and then so the rest of the academia is

1215
00:40:24,390 --> 00:40:22,720
completely useful idiot kind of ville

1216
00:40:25,750 --> 00:40:24,400
where they don't know anything so where

1217
00:40:27,829 --> 00:40:25,760
do we turn we

1218
00:40:28,790 --> 00:40:27,839
it all comes to you buddy i mean we all

1219
00:40:31,430 --> 00:40:28,800
come back to you

1220
00:40:34,390 --> 00:40:31,440
and say okay so tell us what's really

1221
00:40:36,150 --> 00:40:34,400
going on the best you can

1222
00:40:37,589 --> 00:40:36,160
yeah well i mean i think that's you know

1223
00:40:39,030 --> 00:40:37,599
in essence what i've been trying to do

1224
00:40:39,430 --> 00:40:39,040
and especially looking into a lot of

1225
00:40:41,270 --> 00:40:39,440
this

1226
00:40:43,190 --> 00:40:41,280
you know these strange currents so to

1227
00:40:45,349 --> 00:40:43,200
speak um because i mean it really is

1228
00:40:47,990 --> 00:40:45,359
crucial i mean this is where

1229
00:40:49,270 --> 00:40:48,000
the real cutting edge science uh is

1230
00:40:51,109 --> 00:40:49,280
happening and again i always want to

1231
00:40:52,710 --> 00:40:51,119
emphasize you know

1232
00:40:54,150 --> 00:40:52,720
i'm not saying that i necessarily

1233
00:40:55,910 --> 00:40:54,160
believe that a lot of this stuff is

1234
00:40:57,510 --> 00:40:55,920
possible but there are certainly some

1235
00:40:59,270 --> 00:40:57,520
very powerful and very well

1236
00:41:00,790 --> 00:40:59,280
uh connected individuals who do think

1237
00:41:03,270 --> 00:41:00,800
that it's possible and have invested a

1238
00:41:05,030 --> 00:41:03,280
lot of time and resources into it

1239
00:41:06,950 --> 00:41:05,040
and it's just instrumental to try to

1240
00:41:08,470 --> 00:41:06,960
reconstruct this as much as we possibly

1241
00:41:09,990 --> 00:41:08,480
can to try to understand the true

1242
00:41:11,910 --> 00:41:10,000
history of what's really been happening

1243
00:41:12,790 --> 00:41:11,920
especially for the last 50 or 60 years

1244
00:41:14,950 --> 00:41:12,800
because it's so

1245
00:41:16,870 --> 00:41:14,960
instrumental to what is now unfolding to

1246
00:41:18,470 --> 00:41:16,880
uh for us right now in our modern

1247
00:41:20,230 --> 00:41:18,480
society

1248
00:41:22,309 --> 00:41:20,240
so let's talk let's talk a little bit

1249
00:41:23,190 --> 00:41:22,319
about right now modern society as it

1250
00:41:27,349 --> 00:41:23,200
relates to

1251
00:41:30,870 --> 00:41:27,359
your new book that's a cue for me to

1252
00:41:33,990 --> 00:41:33,190
a special relationship trump epstein and

1253
00:41:36,950 --> 00:41:34,000
the secret history

1254
00:41:38,630 --> 00:41:36,960
of the anglo-american establishment go

1255
00:41:41,270 --> 00:41:38,640
over one more time as i show

1256
00:41:43,510 --> 00:41:41,280
kind of the table of contents here where

1257
00:41:46,390 --> 00:41:43,520
you're trying to take us

1258
00:41:49,270 --> 00:41:46,400
with this book and then and i know

1259
00:41:51,349 --> 00:41:49,280
you're big on tracing the history but

1260
00:41:52,390 --> 00:41:51,359
come up bring us up to speed on right

1261
00:41:55,829 --> 00:41:52,400
now

1262
00:41:57,750 --> 00:41:55,839
how you think this plays out with

1263
00:41:59,670 --> 00:41:57,760
what we're experiencing real time like

1264
00:42:01,510 --> 00:41:59,680
just the debates last night you know the

1265
00:42:04,069 --> 00:42:01,520
third debate i mean this stuff is

1266
00:42:05,510 --> 00:42:04,079
right we're right in the middle of it

1267
00:42:06,950 --> 00:42:05,520
yeah absolutely

1268
00:42:08,950 --> 00:42:06,960
well i mean really i think that the

1269
00:42:10,309 --> 00:42:08,960
network i'm chronicling here was at the

1270
00:42:12,550 --> 00:42:10,319
heart of um

1271
00:42:13,510 --> 00:42:12,560
you know bro uh brexit in the uk and the

1272
00:42:15,829 --> 00:42:13,520
rise of trump

1273
00:42:16,550 --> 00:42:15,839
explain that okay well i mean

1274
00:42:18,390 --> 00:42:16,560
essentially

1275
00:42:20,069 --> 00:42:18,400
okay you have the second world war that

1276
00:42:22,630 --> 00:42:20,079
ends and you end up with a lot of these

1277
00:42:24,790 --> 00:42:22,640
spooks who were temporarily unemployed

1278
00:42:27,270 --> 00:42:24,800
and this sort of created this vast

1279
00:42:29,430 --> 00:42:27,280
network of private intelligence networks

1280
00:42:31,910 --> 00:42:29,440
among the us and the uk that have really

1281
00:42:33,670 --> 00:42:31,920
subsisted uh to this very day

1282
00:42:35,349 --> 00:42:33,680
now of course the uk was always a lot

1283
00:42:36,069 --> 00:42:35,359
more reliant on this network because

1284
00:42:37,829 --> 00:42:36,079
they weren't

1285
00:42:39,430 --> 00:42:37,839
great power essentially in the cold war

1286
00:42:41,109 --> 00:42:39,440
era they had to do things with much more

1287
00:42:42,230 --> 00:42:41,119
plausible deniability than we did in the

1288
00:42:44,230 --> 00:42:42,240
u.s here

1289
00:42:46,550 --> 00:42:44,240
but that's changing as well as america's

1290
00:42:47,910 --> 00:42:46,560
overall power starts to decline

1291
00:42:49,829 --> 00:42:47,920
but i mean this is where like the

1292
00:42:51,270 --> 00:42:49,839
private military sector comes from

1293
00:42:53,190 --> 00:42:51,280
especially which is one of the things

1294
00:42:56,470 --> 00:42:53,200
that i chronicle in the first book

1295
00:42:58,550 --> 00:42:56,480
the rise of the modern day pmcs and this

1296
00:42:59,349 --> 00:42:58,560
is the sort of legacy that if you fast

1297
00:43:02,069 --> 00:42:59,359
forward to

1298
00:43:03,910 --> 00:43:02,079
2020 where what i kind of think of as

1299
00:43:04,710 --> 00:43:03,920
the cambridge analytica network comes

1300
00:43:06,309 --> 00:43:04,720
from

1301
00:43:09,589 --> 00:43:06,319
you know what i'm saying you guys did a

1302
00:43:11,430 --> 00:43:09,599
great show on fourth generation warfare

1303
00:43:12,710 --> 00:43:11,440
and that's what i think you're alluding

1304
00:43:14,390 --> 00:43:12,720
to here and

1305
00:43:16,630 --> 00:43:14,400
it's such a great point but a lot of

1306
00:43:18,390 --> 00:43:16,640
people probably aren't

1307
00:43:19,670 --> 00:43:18,400
tuned into it until that you tell them

1308
00:43:21,109 --> 00:43:19,680
you know but you just kind of think it

1309
00:43:22,790 --> 00:43:21,119
through you know you're out there

1310
00:43:24,150 --> 00:43:22,800
battling with sticks and swords and it's

1311
00:43:26,630 --> 00:43:24,160
like whoever has the

1312
00:43:27,510 --> 00:43:26,640
most sticks and the best swords wins and

1313
00:43:28,950 --> 00:43:27,520
then you get

1314
00:43:30,790 --> 00:43:28,960
guns and you're like well whoever has

1315
00:43:32,390 --> 00:43:30,800
the best guns and planes wins

1316
00:43:34,390 --> 00:43:32,400
and then you get nuclear bombs and

1317
00:43:36,150 --> 00:43:34,400
you're like oh [\h__\h] well we can't really

1318
00:43:39,589 --> 00:43:36,160
do that anymore

1319
00:43:41,910 --> 00:43:39,599
all along you were doing the information

1320
00:43:43,030 --> 00:43:41,920
game the information war at every stage

1321
00:43:45,270 --> 00:43:43,040
you were doing that

1322
00:43:46,870 --> 00:43:45,280
but now it kind of shifts right and now

1323
00:43:49,670 --> 00:43:46,880
that becomes well

1324
00:43:51,589 --> 00:43:49,680
really the the tool that is gaining more

1325
00:43:54,950 --> 00:43:51,599
power is the information

1326
00:43:57,510 --> 00:43:54,960
aspect and it also becomes the most

1327
00:43:59,589 --> 00:43:57,520
viable one to kind of bring to the to

1328
00:44:01,910 --> 00:43:59,599
the battlefield so

1329
00:44:02,630 --> 00:44:01,920
that shift that you're talking about is

1330
00:44:05,430 --> 00:44:02,640
so

1331
00:44:06,790 --> 00:44:05,440
freaking central to all this and i just

1332
00:44:08,230 --> 00:44:06,800
want to make sure that

1333
00:44:10,309 --> 00:44:08,240
it's your point i just want to make sure

1334
00:44:11,750 --> 00:44:10,319
that we yeah yeah yeah

1335
00:44:13,589 --> 00:44:11,760
well i mean it's the shift with that but

1336
00:44:15,349 --> 00:44:13,599
i mean it's also i think the shift of a

1337
00:44:16,630 --> 00:44:15,359
lot of this stuff going from the public

1338
00:44:19,670 --> 00:44:16,640
to the private as well

1339
00:44:21,589 --> 00:44:19,680
too which is also instrumental in how

1340
00:44:22,309 --> 00:44:21,599
things are currently playing out right

1341
00:44:23,670 --> 00:44:22,319
now

1342
00:44:24,950 --> 00:44:23,680
and i mean it was kind of like the same

1343
00:44:26,710 --> 00:44:24,960
thing with the outsourcing of the

1344
00:44:28,069 --> 00:44:26,720
private military industry as well

1345
00:44:30,390 --> 00:44:28,079
because i mean it was so essential

1346
00:44:32,150 --> 00:44:30,400
around special operations forces so now

1347
00:44:33,670 --> 00:44:32,160
it's a situation where

1348
00:44:35,270 --> 00:44:33,680
you know you only need a handful of

1349
00:44:37,030 --> 00:44:35,280
soldiers to do what you used to need you

1350
00:44:39,510 --> 00:44:37,040
know a couple of battalions to do

1351
00:44:41,270 --> 00:44:39,520
uh you know a couple of decades ago and

1352
00:44:42,550 --> 00:44:41,280
now i mean going into the 21st century

1353
00:44:43,750 --> 00:44:42,560
it's the same thing with psychological

1354
00:44:45,190 --> 00:44:43,760
warfare operations

1355
00:44:46,710 --> 00:44:45,200
you know you need to need you need a

1356
00:44:48,230 --> 00:44:46,720
whole staff to do this now i mean you

1357
00:44:49,510 --> 00:44:48,240
need a couple of guys with keyboards

1358
00:44:51,990 --> 00:44:49,520
effectively

1359
00:44:53,670 --> 00:44:52,000
so now i mean a relatively small network

1360
00:44:56,309 --> 00:44:53,680
of private actors

1361
00:44:58,309 --> 00:44:56,319
can you know effectively do tremendous

1362
00:44:59,510 --> 00:44:58,319
damage to sovereign states i mean we're

1363
00:45:00,870 --> 00:44:59,520
seeing it right here in the united

1364
00:45:02,309 --> 00:45:00,880
states you know they're seeing it in the

1365
00:45:03,670 --> 00:45:02,319
uk with brexit

1366
00:45:05,109 --> 00:45:03,680
and i think if you really pull back the

1367
00:45:06,309 --> 00:45:05,119
curtain there probably aren't a lot of

1368
00:45:09,430 --> 00:45:06,319
people who were you know

1369
00:45:10,230 --> 00:45:09,440
uh who are players in this who are parts

1370
00:45:12,390 --> 00:45:10,240
of this

1371
00:45:14,390 --> 00:45:12,400
independent to whether or not it

1372
00:45:14,950 --> 00:45:14,400
reflects the quote-unquote will of the

1373
00:45:17,349 --> 00:45:14,960
people

1374
00:45:19,430 --> 00:45:17,359
right i mean they're doing this totally

1375
00:45:21,910 --> 00:45:19,440
for private agendas essentially

1376
00:45:22,950 --> 00:45:21,920
right but sometimes sometimes it

1377
00:45:24,950 --> 00:45:22,960
reflects

1378
00:45:27,190 --> 00:45:24,960
the will of the people so it's still

1379
00:45:29,190 --> 00:45:27,200
being engineered it's still being gamed

1380
00:45:31,430 --> 00:45:29,200
but it's being gamed i guess we could

1381
00:45:32,710 --> 00:45:31,440
argue or have to hash out whether it is

1382
00:45:34,870 --> 00:45:32,720
a a

1383
00:45:36,470 --> 00:45:34,880
virtuous game because it really is the

1384
00:45:39,030 --> 00:45:36,480
people and it's countering

1385
00:45:39,990 --> 00:45:39,040
a force that was trying to subvert the

1386
00:45:41,670 --> 00:45:40,000
will of the people

1387
00:45:43,109 --> 00:45:41,680
it's kind of like i just did the show on

1388
00:45:45,510 --> 00:45:43,119
you know the gloria steinem thing and

1389
00:45:48,309 --> 00:45:45,520
how she was a cia op from the beginning

1390
00:45:49,589 --> 00:45:48,319
and not just uh uh she she wasn't all

1391
00:45:49,829 --> 00:45:49,599
interested in the women's movement you

1392
00:45:52,230 --> 00:45:49,839
know

1393
00:45:52,950 --> 00:45:52,240
other than she was just a cia girl that

1394
00:45:56,150 --> 00:45:52,960
was out

1395
00:45:57,430 --> 00:45:56,160
doing things at the for student protests

1396
00:45:58,309 --> 00:45:57,440
and stuff like that and they recruited

1397
00:46:00,710 --> 00:45:58,319
her for this job

1398
00:46:02,390 --> 00:46:00,720
and it's like the problem with that is

1399
00:46:05,270 --> 00:46:02,400
that we needed

1400
00:46:05,990 --> 00:46:05,280
that nudge of you know it was pretty

1401
00:46:08,150 --> 00:46:06,000
unfair

1402
00:46:10,150 --> 00:46:08,160
in terms of how our laws were in our

1403
00:46:12,150 --> 00:46:10,160
society wasn't coming along in terms of

1404
00:46:13,990 --> 00:46:12,160
equal rights for women so it would be

1405
00:46:15,990 --> 00:46:14,000
easy to embrace that and say well by any

1406
00:46:19,030 --> 00:46:16,000
means necessary but on the other hand do

1407
00:46:21,750 --> 00:46:19,040
we really want the cia

1408
00:46:22,309 --> 00:46:21,760
behind that running the running that

1409
00:46:24,950 --> 00:46:22,319
program

1410
00:46:27,190 --> 00:46:24,960
and i'd say the same thing here you know

1411
00:46:28,309 --> 00:46:27,200
so if brexit really does reflect the

1412
00:46:30,309 --> 00:46:28,319
will of the people

1413
00:46:31,589 --> 00:46:30,319
some people could say well then that's a

1414
00:46:33,270 --> 00:46:31,599
good thing because

1415
00:46:35,190 --> 00:46:33,280
they were holding us down in terms of

1416
00:46:37,349 --> 00:46:35,200
controlling all the information so that

1417
00:46:39,670 --> 00:46:37,359
that couldn't be expressed but then

1418
00:46:42,710 --> 00:46:39,680
you're still in this dilemma because

1419
00:46:43,750 --> 00:46:42,720
you still in a manipulation situation do

1420
00:46:45,190 --> 00:46:43,760
you get what i mean what do you think

1421
00:46:46,950 --> 00:46:45,200
about all yeah yeah yeah yeah well i

1422
00:46:48,870 --> 00:46:46,960
mean because again you know it's just

1423
00:46:50,870 --> 00:46:48,880
we don't really have any legitimate uh

1424
00:46:53,589 --> 00:46:50,880
grass roots anymore i mean it's all like

1425
00:46:55,190 --> 00:46:53,599
astro turfing and so forth and that

1426
00:46:56,870 --> 00:46:55,200
is really especially what is so

1427
00:46:58,309 --> 00:46:56,880
dangerous about something like cambridge

1428
00:47:00,230 --> 00:46:58,319
i mean that's really what they do

1429
00:47:02,069 --> 00:47:00,240
i mean they create false movements they

1430
00:47:03,829 --> 00:47:02,079
try to encourage people to not vote i

1431
00:47:04,790 --> 00:47:03,839
mean just all this other kind of shady

1432
00:47:07,030 --> 00:47:04,800
stuff

1433
00:47:08,870 --> 00:47:07,040
that does manipulate the public will so

1434
00:47:09,990 --> 00:47:08,880
much and you know we're still i think

1435
00:47:12,550 --> 00:47:10,000
really unaware of how

1436
00:47:13,990 --> 00:47:12,560
all this affects us and again that's why

1437
00:47:15,589 --> 00:47:14,000
i mean you see this small group of

1438
00:47:17,030 --> 00:47:15,599
private actors who are able to

1439
00:47:20,470 --> 00:47:17,040
subvert the government of the most

1440
00:47:23,589 --> 00:47:20,480
powerful nation on earth allegedly

1441
00:47:25,589 --> 00:47:23,599
yes exactly and uh

1442
00:47:27,109 --> 00:47:25,599
you know i'll tell you what let me

1443
00:47:28,470 --> 00:47:27,119
there's again there's just so many

1444
00:47:29,109 --> 00:47:28,480
things and and hopefully we'll have an

1445
00:47:31,430 --> 00:47:29,119
ongoing

1446
00:47:32,950 --> 00:47:31,440
discussion about this and i know i'm i'm

1447
00:47:35,430 --> 00:47:32,960
going to come on the farm and i

1448
00:47:37,190 --> 00:47:35,440
i would love for that appearance just to

1449
00:47:37,990 --> 00:47:37,200
be kind of round two of this because

1450
00:47:40,790 --> 00:47:38,000
this is the stuff

1451
00:47:42,309 --> 00:47:40,800
i really think is it's just so great and

1452
00:47:44,390 --> 00:47:42,319
so next level which

1453
00:47:45,589 --> 00:47:44,400
you're able to do because you have this

1454
00:47:47,990 --> 00:47:45,599
immense

1455
00:47:49,750 --> 00:47:48,000
database now connected in your head of

1456
00:47:51,510 --> 00:47:49,760
all these different facts that a lot of

1457
00:47:55,190 --> 00:47:51,520
people don't have a handle on

1458
00:47:58,549 --> 00:47:55,200
but i wanted to talk about new world

1459
00:47:59,829 --> 00:47:58,559
order for a minute and i kind of

1460
00:48:01,670 --> 00:47:59,839
have to throw you a little bit of a

1461
00:48:03,670 --> 00:48:01,680
curve ball here and i kind of wish i

1462
00:48:05,990 --> 00:48:03,680
would have sent you this in advance but

1463
00:48:07,270 --> 00:48:06,000
i did an interview i don't know a couple

1464
00:48:10,150 --> 00:48:07,280
years ago

1465
00:48:12,230 --> 00:48:10,160
with this guy and he's a political side

1466
00:48:13,589 --> 00:48:12,240
professor at ohio state university and

1467
00:48:16,470 --> 00:48:13,599
really well respected

1468
00:48:18,309 --> 00:48:16,480
his name is dr alexander wendt you ever

1469
00:48:21,990 --> 00:48:18,319
heard of him

1470
00:48:25,270 --> 00:48:23,750
as the story goes on you might have

1471
00:48:26,710 --> 00:48:25,280
heard him because you wrote these couple

1472
00:48:27,670 --> 00:48:26,720
of papers that really got a lot of

1473
00:48:31,030 --> 00:48:27,680
traction

1474
00:48:31,750 --> 00:48:31,040
inside of the alternative conspiratorial

1475
00:48:33,990 --> 00:48:31,760
community

1476
00:48:34,950 --> 00:48:34,000
and both of them are super interesting

1477
00:48:37,750 --> 00:48:34,960
and these things just

1478
00:48:38,829 --> 00:48:37,760
just about cost him his job and

1479
00:48:41,030 --> 00:48:38,839
certainly cost him a lot of

1480
00:48:43,349 --> 00:48:41,040
respectability among his peers

1481
00:48:44,710 --> 00:48:43,359
but you know he's german guy and kind of

1482
00:48:46,549 --> 00:48:44,720
had this kind of

1483
00:48:48,150 --> 00:48:46,559
certain thing where he was kind of a

1484
00:48:48,549 --> 00:48:48,160
teflon like what are you talking about

1485
00:48:50,309 --> 00:48:48,559
i'm just

1486
00:48:51,829 --> 00:48:50,319
writing another poli-sci paper what are

1487
00:48:52,549 --> 00:48:51,839
you all worked up about but here is the

1488
00:48:56,470 --> 00:48:52,559
point

1489
00:48:58,390 --> 00:48:56,480
not to bury it the first paper was

1490
00:48:59,670 --> 00:48:58,400
well one world government yeah if you

1491
00:49:02,069 --> 00:48:59,680
really think about it

1492
00:49:04,069 --> 00:49:02,079
of course yeah how can it be otherwise

1493
00:49:04,790 --> 00:49:04,079
we're headed towards a one world

1494
00:49:06,710 --> 00:49:04,800
government

1495
00:49:07,829 --> 00:49:06,720
look at the long lens of history you

1496
00:49:09,510 --> 00:49:07,839
know you start with all these little

1497
00:49:11,109 --> 00:49:09,520
tribes and all these little states

1498
00:49:13,030 --> 00:49:11,119
and then they consolidate you know as

1499
00:49:15,349 --> 00:49:13,040
you were kind of saying as power gets

1500
00:49:16,710 --> 00:49:15,359
gets more consolidated then the states

1501
00:49:19,990 --> 00:49:16,720
get more consolidated and

1502
00:49:23,030 --> 00:49:20,000
sure that's where we're heading and as

1503
00:49:25,990 --> 00:49:23,040
kind of somewhat obvious as that is

1504
00:49:28,150 --> 00:49:26,000
it is a bit of a game changer when you

1505
00:49:30,549 --> 00:49:28,160
really step back and go oh

1506
00:49:31,910 --> 00:49:30,559
so what is the game that's really be

1507
00:49:32,549 --> 00:49:31,920
playing because if this guy can figure

1508
00:49:33,990 --> 00:49:32,559
it out

1509
00:49:35,829 --> 00:49:34,000
then there's a lot of other smart people

1510
00:49:39,510 --> 00:49:35,839
can figure that out and say

1511
00:49:41,829 --> 00:49:39,520
so we're all really heading towards

1512
00:49:42,710 --> 00:49:41,839
new world order one world's uh one world

1513
00:49:45,750 --> 00:49:42,720
kind of thing

1514
00:49:46,870 --> 00:49:45,760
we really don't like the way it's being

1515
00:49:49,990 --> 00:49:46,880
pushed by the

1516
00:49:52,870 --> 00:49:50,000
orwellian left-wing crowd but

1517
00:49:54,309 --> 00:49:52,880
as you kind of have delved into in the

1518
00:49:55,270 --> 00:49:54,319
last couple shows you've done on the

1519
00:49:58,390 --> 00:49:55,280
farm

1520
00:49:59,510 --> 00:49:58,400
is there's another force and it's not so

1521
00:50:02,150 --> 00:49:59,520
clear that in the

1522
00:50:02,950 --> 00:50:02,160
their end game isn't the world order one

1523
00:50:05,030 --> 00:50:02,960
world state

1524
00:50:06,790 --> 00:50:05,040
either because they see around the curve

1525
00:50:10,150 --> 00:50:06,800
and they see that that's probably

1526
00:50:13,109 --> 00:50:10,160
happening and yeah let's just let's just

1527
00:50:14,870 --> 00:50:13,119
throw that out well i mean yeah i mean

1528
00:50:17,030 --> 00:50:14,880
everybody sort of knows the sort of

1529
00:50:19,829 --> 00:50:17,040
globalist internationalist version of a

1530
00:50:22,230 --> 00:50:19,839
new world order so to speak but i mean

1531
00:50:24,230 --> 00:50:22,240
you had this sort of counter vision uh

1532
00:50:25,349 --> 00:50:24,240
which in the american experience really

1533
00:50:27,349 --> 00:50:25,359
went back to

1534
00:50:28,790 --> 00:50:27,359
the administration of william mckinley

1535
00:50:31,349 --> 00:50:28,800
which is really instrumental which is

1536
00:50:32,630 --> 00:50:31,359
why nobody talks about it but um

1537
00:50:34,790 --> 00:50:32,640
you had an individual in that

1538
00:50:36,470 --> 00:50:34,800
administration who went by the name of

1539
00:50:38,829 --> 00:50:36,480
theodore roosevelt

1540
00:50:41,430 --> 00:50:38,839
who was effectively america's first

1541
00:50:42,950 --> 00:50:41,440
neocon now roosevelt was of course a

1542
00:50:45,270 --> 00:50:42,960
major internationalist

1543
00:50:46,470 --> 00:50:45,280
um he was a big believer manifest

1544
00:50:48,790 --> 00:50:46,480
destiny

1545
00:50:49,990 --> 00:50:48,800
radical racist all kinds of wonderful

1546
00:50:52,829 --> 00:50:50,000
things

1547
00:50:54,309 --> 00:50:52,839
anyway he also wanted america to embrace

1548
00:50:56,950 --> 00:50:54,319
internationalism

1549
00:50:58,309 --> 00:50:56,960
but more than anything he wanted a great

1550
00:51:00,790 --> 00:50:58,319
glorious american

1551
00:51:02,790 --> 00:51:00,800
empire that would dominate the world and

1552
00:51:04,390 --> 00:51:02,800
effectively would model the world after

1553
00:51:06,230 --> 00:51:04,400
our values

1554
00:51:08,230 --> 00:51:06,240
and that was really at the cost of

1555
00:51:09,670 --> 00:51:08,240
always uh this sort of dispute between

1556
00:51:10,710 --> 00:51:09,680
the different elite factions you're sort

1557
00:51:12,150 --> 00:51:10,720
of conservative

1558
00:51:14,069 --> 00:51:12,160
internationalists in one hand and you're

1559
00:51:16,150 --> 00:51:14,079
globalists on the other hand

1560
00:51:17,990 --> 00:51:16,160
basically were we going to try to go

1561
00:51:19,430 --> 00:51:18,000
towards world government

1562
00:51:21,190 --> 00:51:19,440
that would have at least nominally

1563
00:51:24,069 --> 00:51:21,200
attempted to be more inclusive

1564
00:51:25,829 --> 00:51:24,079
and in fairness to the old guard you

1565
00:51:27,750 --> 00:51:25,839
know eastern establishment elites as

1566
00:51:29,670 --> 00:51:27,760
vile as they were in many ways i mean i

1567
00:51:31,270 --> 00:51:29,680
do think that in the immediate aftermath

1568
00:51:32,870 --> 00:51:31,280
of the second world war there was

1569
00:51:34,150 --> 00:51:32,880
something of an effort to try

1570
00:51:35,750 --> 00:51:34,160
and do something that would be more

1571
00:51:36,549 --> 00:51:35,760
inclusive to the rest of the peoples in

1572
00:51:38,710 --> 00:51:36,559
the world

1573
00:51:39,910 --> 00:51:38,720
i like your qualifications there i think

1574
00:51:43,190 --> 00:51:39,920
those qualifications

1575
00:51:44,870 --> 00:51:43,200
are key but

1576
00:51:46,230 --> 00:51:44,880
um on the other hand i mean there was

1577
00:51:47,990 --> 00:51:46,240
just always a group that always

1578
00:51:49,510 --> 00:51:48,000
effectively wanted this america first

1579
00:51:51,990 --> 00:51:49,520
vision i mean later it sort of came to

1580
00:51:53,750 --> 00:51:52,000
also incorporate the uk in it

1581
00:51:55,589 --> 00:51:53,760
and essentially this sort of great

1582
00:51:57,750 --> 00:51:55,599
anglo-american empire that would

1583
00:51:59,910 --> 00:51:57,760
dominate the entire world

1584
00:52:01,670 --> 00:51:59,920
and effectively i mean they are both uh

1585
00:52:02,309 --> 00:52:01,680
internationalist visions of it but i

1586
00:52:05,670 --> 00:52:02,319
mean i think

1587
00:52:07,109 --> 00:52:05,680
uh the more utopian one quote unquote if

1588
00:52:09,190 --> 00:52:07,119
you will at least managed through the

1589
00:52:10,630 --> 00:52:09,200
u.n and what have you was attempting to

1590
00:52:13,190 --> 00:52:10,640
do so

1591
00:52:14,790 --> 00:52:13,200
more so in a long time period of war of

1592
00:52:16,390 --> 00:52:14,800
adoration you know kind of wearing

1593
00:52:18,790 --> 00:52:16,400
everybody down and gradually bringing

1594
00:52:21,670 --> 00:52:18,800
them into this sector whereas

1595
00:52:23,190 --> 00:52:21,680
the rooseveltian version was definitely

1596
00:52:25,190 --> 00:52:23,200
a much more militant one

1597
00:52:27,510 --> 00:52:25,200
it was more than willing to try to bring

1598
00:52:29,430 --> 00:52:27,520
about this great glorious empire by the

1599
00:52:30,710 --> 00:52:29,440
sword if that's what it took

1600
00:52:32,790 --> 00:52:30,720
and i think you really see that

1601
00:52:33,430 --> 00:52:32,800
especially very much in this day and age

1602
00:52:34,630 --> 00:52:33,440
with the

1603
00:52:36,630 --> 00:52:34,640
you know a lot of the rise of the

1604
00:52:37,510 --> 00:52:36,640
neocons the american bursters and the

1605
00:52:40,230 --> 00:52:37,520
american right

1606
00:52:41,829 --> 00:52:40,240
and so forth and it's really unsettling

1607
00:52:43,589 --> 00:52:41,839
because i mean again you know going back

1608
00:52:45,349 --> 00:52:43,599
to the old you know kind of anglo-er

1609
00:52:47,589 --> 00:52:45,359
eastern establishment the u.s the

1610
00:52:49,270 --> 00:52:47,599
rockefellers and all these people i mean

1611
00:52:51,589 --> 00:52:49,280
they had seen the second world war

1612
00:52:53,030 --> 00:52:51,599
firsthand they knew the kinds of weapons

1613
00:52:54,470 --> 00:52:53,040
that were being developed and they

1614
00:52:57,670 --> 00:52:54,480
understood that there were at least

1615
00:52:59,109 --> 00:52:57,680
certain lines that we should never cross

1616
00:53:01,750 --> 00:52:59,119
because otherwise there wouldn't be a

1617
00:53:03,750 --> 00:53:01,760
human species left essentially

1618
00:53:05,109 --> 00:53:03,760
yeah as you explored in a recent uh

1619
00:53:07,990 --> 00:53:05,119
episode on the farm

1620
00:53:10,790 --> 00:53:08,000
and and did so just really in this kind

1621
00:53:12,710 --> 00:53:10,800
of deep nuanced way

1622
00:53:14,150 --> 00:53:12,720
you get to end of that discussion and

1623
00:53:15,750 --> 00:53:14,160
you're like well

1624
00:53:17,270 --> 00:53:15,760
if i am going to be dragged into the

1625
00:53:22,069 --> 00:53:17,280
gutter in a fight

1626
00:53:23,910 --> 00:53:22,079
then i do have to fight so it's not like

1627
00:53:25,589 --> 00:53:23,920
and that's the the problem with all this

1628
00:53:28,230 --> 00:53:25,599
stuff is it it just

1629
00:53:29,510 --> 00:53:28,240
degrades you know into who's ever the

1630
00:53:33,750 --> 00:53:29,520
nastiest

1631
00:53:37,589 --> 00:53:33,760
wins out so it's not like one side

1632
00:53:41,270 --> 00:53:37,599
if we are engaged in this culture war

1633
00:53:44,710 --> 00:53:41,280
battle that that is the manifestation

1634
00:53:46,790 --> 00:53:44,720
of this deeper battle ideological battle

1635
00:53:48,150 --> 00:53:46,800
of what the new world order is going to

1636
00:53:49,349 --> 00:53:48,160
look like because that's what we're

1637
00:53:52,390 --> 00:53:49,359
saying here i guess

1638
00:53:55,829 --> 00:53:52,400
we're saying that there's two visions

1639
00:53:57,069 --> 00:53:55,839
for the eventuality of that one world

1640
00:53:59,750 --> 00:53:57,079
state the

1641
00:54:00,790 --> 00:53:59,760
inevitability of that one world state

1642
00:54:03,589 --> 00:54:00,800
that

1643
00:54:04,950 --> 00:54:03,599
my buddy alexander wendt is pointing to

1644
00:54:08,950 --> 00:54:04,960
and the one vision

1645
00:54:12,390 --> 00:54:08,960
is what we're seeing manifested by

1646
00:54:15,190 --> 00:54:12,400
kind of let's call it the left um

1647
00:54:17,030 --> 00:54:15,200
then the the counter to that especially

1648
00:54:19,510 --> 00:54:17,040
the way they're playing the game

1649
00:54:21,349 --> 00:54:19,520
is what you're talking about on the

1650
00:54:21,829 --> 00:54:21,359
right but it really can't be any other

1651
00:54:23,910 --> 00:54:21,839
way

1652
00:54:25,109 --> 00:54:23,920
it's kind of like the the christian

1653
00:54:27,030 --> 00:54:25,119
thing which we can

1654
00:54:28,710 --> 00:54:27,040
maybe get into religion and stuff like

1655
00:54:30,870 --> 00:54:28,720
that and i think we're actually being

1656
00:54:31,510 --> 00:54:30,880
dragged into a false duality with this

1657
00:54:33,750 --> 00:54:31,520
though i mean

1658
00:54:35,349 --> 00:54:33,760
i i mean essentially i would say we need

1659
00:54:37,109 --> 00:54:35,359
a third option you know because neither

1660
00:54:38,710 --> 00:54:37,119
one of these are really very good ones i

1661
00:54:40,309 --> 00:54:38,720
mean i think that

1662
00:54:42,390 --> 00:54:40,319
you know the globus one might be

1663
00:54:44,230 --> 00:54:42,400
somewhat a little better in some levels

1664
00:54:46,309 --> 00:54:44,240
i mean probably less people would die

1665
00:54:48,150 --> 00:54:46,319
but it's not pretty either a lot of

1666
00:54:50,789 --> 00:54:48,160
levels either let's just say that

1667
00:54:52,150 --> 00:54:50,799
so i mean i think that we need you know

1668
00:54:53,990 --> 00:54:52,160
to start looking at different

1669
00:54:55,750 --> 00:54:54,000
possibilities because yes the world is

1670
00:54:57,190 --> 00:54:55,760
going to become interconnected i mean

1671
00:54:58,230 --> 00:54:57,200
even more so than it is now i mean

1672
00:55:00,549 --> 00:54:58,240
that's inevitable with the way

1673
00:55:01,990 --> 00:55:00,559
technology is going and so forth

1674
00:55:04,069 --> 00:55:02,000
but that also gives us you know the

1675
00:55:06,150 --> 00:55:04,079
ability to not need i think as many of

1676
00:55:09,349 --> 00:55:06,160
these byzantine

1677
00:55:11,270 --> 00:55:09,359
uh structures over us be they you know a

1678
00:55:13,589 --> 00:55:11,280
kind of all-seeing world government

1679
00:55:15,349 --> 00:55:13,599
or multinational corporations that

1680
00:55:16,150 --> 00:55:15,359
effectively have the power of multiple

1681
00:55:18,630 --> 00:55:16,160
but do you think

1682
00:55:19,990 --> 00:55:18,640
the center can really hold this is the

1683
00:55:22,470 --> 00:55:20,000
point that you guys raised

1684
00:55:23,030 --> 00:55:22,480
in your in this show and i forget which

1685
00:55:24,630 --> 00:55:23,040
episode

1686
00:55:27,270 --> 00:55:24,640
it was because you've had so many

1687
00:55:30,549 --> 00:55:27,280
fantastic ones that they've all kind of

1688
00:55:33,030 --> 00:55:30,559
merged ahead in my merch together

1689
00:55:34,390 --> 00:55:33,040
i think society is going to survive

1690
00:55:37,109 --> 00:55:34,400
essentially

1691
00:55:38,309 --> 00:55:37,119
well but no because i i think and where

1692
00:55:40,870 --> 00:55:38,319
is the farm here

1693
00:55:41,349 --> 00:55:40,880
um oh because i want to show people some

1694
00:55:43,750 --> 00:55:41,359
of the

1695
00:55:45,910 --> 00:55:43,760
episodes that you've had here i i you

1696
00:55:47,670 --> 00:55:45,920
know there's always you know oh will

1697
00:55:49,349 --> 00:55:47,680
society survive and all the rest of this

1698
00:55:51,430 --> 00:55:49,359
it's like you know what i'm saying is

1699
00:55:52,710 --> 00:55:51,440
kind of a more and this is again this is

1700
00:55:53,270 --> 00:55:52,720
i think the point that you guys were

1701
00:55:55,589 --> 00:55:53,280
talking about

1702
00:55:57,750 --> 00:55:55,599
is like if you want to say i don't want

1703
00:55:58,549 --> 00:55:57,760
to take sides there has to be another

1704
00:56:01,109 --> 00:55:58,559
way

1705
00:56:02,150 --> 00:56:01,119
you know kind of what's popularized by

1706
00:56:04,549 --> 00:56:02,160
the alternative

1707
00:56:06,390 --> 00:56:04,559
uh the alt alt media that we're a part

1708
00:56:07,750 --> 00:56:06,400
of i just look at that and i just

1709
00:56:09,589 --> 00:56:07,760
have to kind of laugh a little bit it

1710
00:56:12,549 --> 00:56:09,599
seems so naive a little bit i mean

1711
00:56:14,150 --> 00:56:12,559
the amount of money and power that these

1712
00:56:16,870 --> 00:56:14,160
other two forces have

1713
00:56:17,750 --> 00:56:16,880
is just going to it makes it look

1714
00:56:19,670 --> 00:56:17,760
ridiculous

1715
00:56:21,829 --> 00:56:19,680
so yeah you know everyone wants a

1716
00:56:23,990 --> 00:56:21,839
everyone wants a pick on soros in his

1717
00:56:26,069 --> 00:56:24,000
billions that he's putting into

1718
00:56:27,750 --> 00:56:26,079
that one side of the agenda and as you

1719
00:56:29,510 --> 00:56:27,760
guys so rightly point out was like well

1720
00:56:29,990 --> 00:56:29,520
there's billions coming in on the other

1721
00:56:31,430 --> 00:56:30,000
side

1722
00:56:33,190 --> 00:56:31,440
and they're trying to co-op things and

1723
00:56:33,910 --> 00:56:33,200
manage things on the other side but the

1724
00:56:36,789 --> 00:56:33,920
idea

1725
00:56:37,750 --> 00:56:36,799
that and again i i hate to be the debbie

1726
00:56:39,190 --> 00:56:37,760
downer here but the

1727
00:56:40,789 --> 00:56:39,200
the idea that there's going to be this

1728
00:56:43,750 --> 00:56:40,799
organic middle

1729
00:56:44,950 --> 00:56:43,760
that will kind of rise up it's like no

1730
00:56:48,710 --> 00:56:44,960
to whatever extent

1731
00:56:51,430 --> 00:56:48,720
we are successful it will be in

1732
00:56:54,069 --> 00:56:51,440
making a small dent in shifting one of

1733
00:56:55,349 --> 00:56:54,079
those two polarities it's not a third

1734
00:56:56,710 --> 00:56:55,359
leg on the stool

1735
00:56:59,829 --> 00:56:56,720
just ain't gonna happen we don't have

1736
00:57:02,390 --> 00:56:59,839
enough power we're not enough money

1737
00:57:03,670 --> 00:57:02,400
well i mean yes and no i mean i do think

1738
00:57:05,589 --> 00:57:03,680
though with the rise of

1739
00:57:07,829 --> 00:57:05,599
the change in communications though that

1740
00:57:09,349 --> 00:57:07,839
does offer different possibilities that

1741
00:57:11,030 --> 00:57:09,359
we really haven't had

1742
00:57:12,470 --> 00:57:11,040
in human history up to this point in

1743
00:57:13,910 --> 00:57:12,480
time i mean obviously that could all

1744
00:57:15,750 --> 00:57:13,920
change if there is an attempt to

1745
00:57:17,349 --> 00:57:15,760
massively crack down on the internet or

1746
00:57:20,069 --> 00:57:17,359
something to that effect

1747
00:57:20,470 --> 00:57:20,079
but break down buddy i mean this is

1748
00:57:23,670 --> 00:57:20,480
again

1749
00:57:26,630 --> 00:57:23,680
to to

1750
00:57:27,430 --> 00:57:26,640
to pick on but you're because what i'm

1751
00:57:31,510 --> 00:57:27,440
doing

1752
00:57:33,829 --> 00:57:31,520
with your own

1753
00:57:35,190 --> 00:57:33,839
points you know that you've made because

1754
00:57:37,910 --> 00:57:35,200
and if you weren't

1755
00:57:38,789 --> 00:57:37,920
uh exploring both sides of this then i

1756
00:57:42,230 --> 00:57:38,799
wouldn't

1757
00:57:44,390 --> 00:57:42,240
for you because you're uh we all are

1758
00:57:47,270 --> 00:57:44,400
flip-flopping on all this stuff

1759
00:57:47,670 --> 00:57:47,280
so uh cambridge analytica is to your

1760
00:57:50,710 --> 00:57:47,680
point

1761
00:57:53,910 --> 00:57:50,720
is a few guys that are running this game

1762
00:57:54,309 --> 00:57:53,920
that it is impossible for us to right it

1763
00:57:56,390 --> 00:57:54,319
took

1764
00:57:57,510 --> 00:57:56,400
us forever to figure out that that's

1765
00:57:58,870 --> 00:57:57,520
what was going on

1766
00:58:00,870 --> 00:57:58,880
well they've already moved on to the

1767
00:58:02,789 --> 00:58:00,880
next level next level next level so for

1768
00:58:05,030 --> 00:58:02,799
us to get all excited because

1769
00:58:06,710 --> 00:58:05,040
we have uh have the internet and we can

1770
00:58:08,309 --> 00:58:06,720
podcast we talk to each other

1771
00:58:11,109 --> 00:58:08,319
hey i'm not putting that down i'm still

1772
00:58:13,750 --> 00:58:11,119
doing it i mean it doesn't mean that

1773
00:58:15,030 --> 00:58:13,760
that you stopped doing it oh and but it

1774
00:58:16,789 --> 00:58:15,040
does mean that you have to kind of

1775
00:58:18,549 --> 00:58:16,799
check yourself in terms of how this fits

1776
00:58:20,630 --> 00:58:18,559
into kind of the big picture

1777
00:58:22,069 --> 00:58:20,640
i mean i just talked to you know the

1778
00:58:23,910 --> 00:58:22,079
cancel culture

1779
00:58:26,390 --> 00:58:23,920
the the people that are just kind of

1780
00:58:27,190 --> 00:58:26,400
disappeared you know completely from the

1781
00:58:28,789 --> 00:58:27,200
conversation

1782
00:58:30,230 --> 00:58:28,799
this is something we never would have

1783
00:58:30,950 --> 00:58:30,240
even if you and i were having this

1784
00:58:33,670 --> 00:58:30,960
conversation

1785
00:58:35,589 --> 00:58:33,680
five years ago and one of us said that

1786
00:58:37,109 --> 00:58:35,599
the other one would be

1787
00:58:39,430 --> 00:58:37,119
they could never do that they could

1788
00:58:41,589 --> 00:58:39,440
never completely just across all these

1789
00:58:43,750 --> 00:58:41,599
platforms that shows this collusion

1790
00:58:45,109 --> 00:58:43,760
this talk about conspiracy shows this

1791
00:58:47,349 --> 00:58:45,119
compromise con

1792
00:58:48,549 --> 00:58:47,359
conspiratorial collusion that we could

1793
00:58:50,710 --> 00:58:48,559
never imagine

1794
00:58:52,470 --> 00:58:50,720
we would have never anticipated that

1795
00:58:53,030 --> 00:58:52,480
they could have done that now we live it

1796
00:58:56,230 --> 00:58:53,040
so

1797
00:58:57,030 --> 00:58:56,240
again i i just i think you're i think

1798
00:58:58,710 --> 00:58:57,040
you're

1799
00:59:00,630 --> 00:58:58,720
equally on board with that at different

1800
00:59:01,030 --> 00:59:00,640
times as i am but then you also want to

1801
00:59:02,950 --> 00:59:01,040
kind of

1802
00:59:05,990 --> 00:59:02,960
look at the bright side of things that

1803
00:59:07,910 --> 00:59:06,000
yeah yeah yeah well i mean also i always

1804
00:59:09,750 --> 00:59:07,920
i hate to tell people to try to support

1805
00:59:11,109 --> 00:59:09,760
the lesser of two evils in any real

1806
00:59:12,710 --> 00:59:11,119
faction i mean

1807
00:59:14,150 --> 00:59:12,720
i don't know i feel like that's a lot of

1808
00:59:16,390 --> 00:59:14,160
what has led us to this sad

1809
00:59:18,390 --> 00:59:16,400
juncture i mean we've just we've

1810
00:59:20,390 --> 00:59:18,400
continuously lowered our standards

1811
00:59:21,349 --> 00:59:20,400
generation after generation after

1812
00:59:23,589 --> 00:59:21,359
generation

1813
00:59:24,950 --> 00:59:23,599
it's well you can see just look at the

1814
00:59:26,549 --> 00:59:24,960
presidential debate we were

1815
00:59:29,430 --> 00:59:26,559
forced to witness last night and that's

1816
00:59:31,829 --> 00:59:29,440
what it's gotten us now

1817
00:59:32,789 --> 00:59:31,839
well i think well i don't want to get

1818
00:59:34,309 --> 00:59:32,799
off on another tangent

1819
00:59:36,230 --> 00:59:34,319
i think politics when you look at them

1820
00:59:37,990 --> 00:59:36,240
are really interesting because

1821
00:59:39,589 --> 00:59:38,000
and you have a little bit of that lens i

1822
00:59:41,349 --> 00:59:39,599
mean when you go back to uh

1823
00:59:43,510 --> 00:59:41,359
mckinley or whatever i mean there were

1824
00:59:46,230 --> 00:59:43,520
some really nasty [\h__\h]

1825
00:59:47,829 --> 00:59:46,240
going on in our history that makes

1826
00:59:50,950 --> 00:59:47,839
modern politics look

1827
00:59:53,109 --> 00:59:50,960
mild compared to what those guys did

1828
00:59:54,950 --> 00:59:53,119
and all those so it's always been why

1829
00:59:58,150 --> 00:59:54,960
wouldn't you you know if you can't

1830
00:59:59,430 --> 00:59:58,160
it's a great it's like the whole and i'm

1831
01:00:01,270 --> 00:59:59,440
not too

1832
01:00:03,109 --> 01:00:01,280
nick bostrom which is a fantastic

1833
01:00:05,190 --> 01:00:03,119
philosopher from uh

1834
01:00:06,309 --> 01:00:05,200
uh oxford and is kind of better known

1835
01:00:10,470 --> 01:00:06,319
for yeah so

1836
01:00:12,390 --> 01:00:10,480
you know if they can they will

1837
01:00:13,589 --> 01:00:12,400
is one of the quotes i like from him and

1838
01:00:15,670 --> 01:00:13,599
it's like

1839
01:00:17,270 --> 01:00:15,680
no matter how horrific you think you

1840
01:00:19,670 --> 01:00:17,280
know whatever it is whether it's

1841
01:00:20,390 --> 01:00:19,680
transhumanism or you know genetic

1842
01:00:22,750 --> 01:00:20,400
engineering

1843
01:00:24,309 --> 01:00:22,760
or you know cloning whatever

1844
01:00:26,870 --> 01:00:24,319
technologically

1845
01:00:28,710 --> 01:00:26,880
if we can we will it's just always been

1846
01:00:29,510 --> 01:00:28,720
and then you can't get away from it by

1847
01:00:31,030 --> 01:00:29,520
being a

1848
01:00:32,710 --> 01:00:31,040
luddite and sticking your head in the

1849
01:00:34,630 --> 01:00:32,720
ground and go well you know

1850
01:00:37,109 --> 01:00:34,640
we just got uh we just got in our house

1851
01:00:38,230 --> 01:00:37,119
the new uh virtual reality thing from

1852
01:00:41,750 --> 01:00:38,240
facebook you know

1853
01:00:42,069 --> 01:00:41,760
because it's like you as soon as you do

1854
01:00:43,829 --> 01:00:42,079
that

1855
01:00:45,270 --> 01:00:43,839
you're like well of course everyone's

1856
01:00:46,789 --> 01:00:45,280
going to be doing this everyone's going

1857
01:00:49,109 --> 01:00:46,799
to be fighting over

1858
01:00:50,390 --> 01:00:49,119
deciding how much of their life is

1859
01:00:52,630 --> 01:00:50,400
virtual versus how much

1860
01:00:55,349 --> 01:00:52,640
life is non-virtual it's it's a given if

1861
01:00:56,950 --> 01:00:55,359
you think that isn't going to happen

1862
01:00:58,950 --> 01:00:56,960
it's going to happen for the largest

1863
01:01:02,309 --> 01:00:58,960
percentage of the population it's

1864
01:01:03,030 --> 01:01:02,319
just like uh you know the neural link

1865
01:01:05,430 --> 01:01:03,040
stuff

1866
01:01:06,150 --> 01:01:05,440
and and all that you know i mean of

1867
01:01:09,030 --> 01:01:06,160
course

1868
01:01:09,510 --> 01:01:09,040
i i have a family member very close to

1869
01:01:13,190 --> 01:01:09,520
me

1870
01:01:15,670 --> 01:01:13,200
who has uh epilepsy they're not going to

1871
01:01:16,230 --> 01:01:15,680
sign up for the neural link if it stops

1872
01:01:18,710 --> 01:01:16,240
their

1873
01:01:20,150 --> 01:01:18,720
seizures of course they will well now

1874
01:01:21,190 --> 01:01:20,160
you're in the game right because

1875
01:01:22,630 --> 01:01:21,200
hey you know what else we can do with

1876
01:01:23,349 --> 01:01:22,640
this neural link we do this and this and

1877
01:01:24,549 --> 01:01:23,359
this and this

1878
01:01:26,549 --> 01:01:24,559
do you want any of this you want to shut

1879
01:01:29,670 --> 01:01:26,559
that down you know i mean it's like

1880
01:01:32,630 --> 01:01:29,680
of course we're heading there yeah

1881
01:01:34,230 --> 01:01:32,640
i mean it's definitely you know i mean

1882
01:01:35,990 --> 01:01:34,240
it's a strange position to be in

1883
01:01:37,510 --> 01:01:36,000
certainly and i mean

1884
01:01:39,829 --> 01:01:37,520
but i mean that's really essentially a

1885
01:01:41,270 --> 01:01:39,839
big part of why i do what i do because i

1886
01:01:43,109 --> 01:01:41,280
mean how they're applied and i mean

1887
01:01:43,670 --> 01:01:43,119
effectively how they can be used against

1888
01:01:45,990 --> 01:01:43,680
the different

1889
01:01:48,549 --> 01:01:46,000
factions as well i mean i think you know

1890
01:01:50,630 --> 01:01:48,559
if you really look at some of these more

1891
01:01:53,349 --> 01:01:50,640
arcane groups i mean what was it the

1892
01:01:54,630 --> 01:01:53,359
dkmu was it domino's chaotis marauder

1893
01:01:56,390 --> 01:01:54,640
underground or some of these other kind

1894
01:01:58,069 --> 01:01:56,400
of outfits they're already trying to do

1895
01:01:59,910 --> 01:01:58,079
something like that

1896
01:02:01,349 --> 01:01:59,920
you know i mean i think that's really at

1897
01:02:03,190 --> 01:02:01,359
this point in time the best bet that we

1898
01:02:06,789 --> 01:02:03,200
really have

1899
01:02:08,950 --> 01:02:06,799
i always say this and people

1900
01:02:11,190 --> 01:02:08,960
think i'm joking or something is you

1901
01:02:14,390 --> 01:02:11,200
know the the old navy commercials

1902
01:02:15,270 --> 01:02:14,400
you know a force for good they show this

1903
01:02:16,950 --> 01:02:15,280
big

1904
01:02:18,630 --> 01:02:16,960
aircraft character no it's a global

1905
01:02:20,710 --> 01:02:18,640
force for good oh yeah

1906
01:02:22,150 --> 01:02:20,720
that's you're so right buddy that's so

1907
01:02:23,510 --> 01:02:22,160
right right right we're close it's like

1908
01:02:25,750 --> 01:02:23,520
they've changed it now right

1909
01:02:26,549 --> 01:02:25,760
let's talk about programming but the old

1910
01:02:29,349 --> 01:02:26,559
one

1911
01:02:31,430 --> 01:02:29,359
which is just generic right i mean

1912
01:02:32,549 --> 01:02:31,440
whether it's global or whether it's

1913
01:02:34,870 --> 01:02:32,559
you know let's leave that out of the

1914
01:02:38,069 --> 01:02:34,880
debate but let's be

1915
01:02:41,190 --> 01:02:38,079
a force for good let's

1916
01:02:43,029 --> 01:02:41,200
uh you know tie into the american

1917
01:02:44,710 --> 01:02:43,039
ideals that we were never there are

1918
01:02:47,750 --> 01:02:44,720
deals we never lived them

1919
01:02:49,430 --> 01:02:47,760
really but we at least had those ideals

1920
01:02:52,870 --> 01:02:49,440
that's all i think we have to do

1921
01:02:53,589 --> 01:02:52,880
is just try and be a force for good in

1922
01:02:55,430 --> 01:02:53,599
our life

1923
01:02:56,870 --> 01:02:55,440
in our community and the people that we

1924
01:03:00,069 --> 01:02:56,880
come in contact with

1925
01:03:02,390 --> 01:03:00,079
oh absolutely that's the strongest

1926
01:03:04,150 --> 01:03:02,400
yep and that's the gravitational force

1927
01:03:07,510 --> 01:03:04,160
that's what pulls these two

1928
01:03:08,470 --> 01:03:07,520
polarized insanities you know need to be

1929
01:03:11,750 --> 01:03:08,480
attracted to

1930
01:03:13,430 --> 01:03:11,760
us rather than us try and glom onto them

1931
01:03:15,029 --> 01:03:13,440
what do you think about that as we try

1932
01:03:16,630 --> 01:03:15,039
and well absolutely and i mean i think

1933
01:03:18,630 --> 01:03:16,640
specifically you know to put these

1934
01:03:20,230 --> 01:03:18,640
techniques to a positive end and so

1935
01:03:22,150 --> 01:03:20,240
forth because i mean to a certain extent

1936
01:03:24,470 --> 01:03:22,160
you know you do need these psychological

1937
01:03:26,230 --> 01:03:24,480
constructs to formulate a society i mean

1938
01:03:28,390 --> 01:03:26,240
you need a certain mythos to base a

1939
01:03:30,630 --> 01:03:28,400
society around i mean they really don't

1940
01:03:32,150 --> 01:03:30,640
last if they don't have that and i mean

1941
01:03:33,349 --> 01:03:32,160
i think it's really up to us i mean

1942
01:03:35,109 --> 01:03:33,359
especially artists

1943
01:03:37,190 --> 01:03:35,119
political scholars that type of thing to

1944
01:03:38,470 --> 01:03:37,200
create a mythos that is a positive one

1945
01:03:39,589 --> 01:03:38,480
something that's more inclusive

1946
01:03:43,510 --> 01:03:39,599
something that's going to be the

1947
01:03:47,589 --> 01:03:45,589
awesome you know what i think that's a

1948
01:03:51,109 --> 01:03:47,599
good way to kind of round it

1949
01:03:53,270 --> 01:03:51,119
on home what else do we need to

1950
01:03:54,710 --> 01:03:53,280
share with people in terms of how they

1951
01:03:56,870 --> 01:03:54,720
need to uh

1952
01:03:58,150 --> 01:03:56,880
connect with what you're doing and and

1953
01:04:00,069 --> 01:03:58,160
and keep

1954
01:04:02,309 --> 01:04:00,079
keep up to speed on how to make that

1955
01:04:03,829 --> 01:04:02,319
good stuff happen

1956
01:04:05,990 --> 01:04:03,839
well i mean i just think you know you

1957
01:04:07,829 --> 01:04:06,000
need to step back sometimes i mean even

1958
01:04:09,589 --> 01:04:07,839
though i am kind of a political junkie i

1959
01:04:09,990 --> 01:04:09,599
mean i usually make a point you know at

1960
01:04:11,670 --> 01:04:10,000
least

1961
01:04:13,589 --> 01:04:11,680
a couple of hours a day really to just

1962
01:04:15,190 --> 01:04:13,599
get outside or something just get away

1963
01:04:17,109 --> 01:04:15,200
from all the technology and i mean

1964
01:04:18,870 --> 01:04:17,119
insanity and just try to

1965
01:04:20,549 --> 01:04:18,880
focus on what's really important to me

1966
01:04:21,829 --> 01:04:20,559
in my life i mean that's kind of another

1967
01:04:23,990 --> 01:04:21,839
thing you know you need something to

1968
01:04:25,750 --> 01:04:24,000
aspire towards goals and

1969
01:04:27,670 --> 01:04:25,760
just ultimately realize that there is

1970
01:04:29,270 --> 01:04:27,680
stuff that you can do i mean it just

1971
01:04:30,789 --> 01:04:29,280
seems like talking to

1972
01:04:32,549 --> 01:04:30,799
because i'm a cook professional like i

1973
01:04:33,990 --> 01:04:32,559
don't really do anything prestigious or

1974
01:04:34,870 --> 01:04:34,000
anything i'm around normal people pretty

1975
01:04:38,069 --> 01:04:34,880
regularly it just

1976
01:04:40,069 --> 01:04:38,079
seems like people get so daunted by

1977
01:04:41,750 --> 01:04:40,079
thinking that i'm just a little person i

1978
01:04:43,829 --> 01:04:41,760
can't really do anything constructive

1979
01:04:45,270 --> 01:04:43,839
with my life which is nonsense

1980
01:04:46,950 --> 01:04:45,280
you know you really just have to believe

1981
01:04:48,150 --> 01:04:46,960
in yourself

1982
01:04:49,510 --> 01:04:48,160
you know the other thing that you said

1983
01:04:51,349 --> 01:04:49,520
there that i think is kind of

1984
01:04:52,390 --> 01:04:51,359
interesting and people don't talk about

1985
01:04:54,710 --> 01:04:52,400
a lot

1986
01:04:56,069 --> 01:04:54,720
and it almost sounds it can sound a

1987
01:04:57,910 --> 01:04:56,079
little bit patronizing

1988
01:05:01,029 --> 01:04:57,920
when you say i'm around normal people a

1989
01:05:04,230 --> 01:05:01,039
lot but i know exactly what you mean

1990
01:05:05,190 --> 01:05:04,240
and i find that too i mean people have

1991
01:05:07,349 --> 01:05:05,200
to also i think

1992
01:05:09,029 --> 01:05:07,359
step out of their social structures too

1993
01:05:09,430 --> 01:05:09,039
because it just seems like so often

1994
01:05:11,270 --> 01:05:09,440
people

1995
01:05:13,029 --> 01:05:11,280
only want to especially nowadays we only

1996
01:05:14,470 --> 01:05:13,039
want to associate with other liberals or

1997
01:05:15,829 --> 01:05:14,480
we only want to associate with other

1998
01:05:17,750 --> 01:05:15,839
conservatives or we only want to

1999
01:05:19,349 --> 01:05:17,760
associate with other vegans or that type

2000
01:05:21,190 --> 01:05:19,359
of thing i mean

2001
01:05:23,190 --> 01:05:21,200
at least for me i've always tried to

2002
01:05:24,870 --> 01:05:23,200
have friends from very different

2003
01:05:26,549 --> 01:05:24,880
backgrounds over the course of my life

2004
01:05:28,069 --> 01:05:26,559
and i mean i think that's very useful

2005
01:05:29,750 --> 01:05:28,079
you know it exposes you to different

2006
01:05:32,069 --> 01:05:29,760
social structures and

2007
01:05:33,430 --> 01:05:32,079
a big part i think of being you know

2008
01:05:35,029 --> 01:05:33,440
trying to do positive things in the

2009
01:05:36,549 --> 01:05:35,039
world is understanding other people's

2010
01:05:38,150 --> 01:05:36,559
perspectives i mean

2011
01:05:39,829 --> 01:05:38,160
even if you find them appalling you

2012
01:05:41,270 --> 01:05:39,839
really can't help them get beyond their

2013
01:05:43,190 --> 01:05:41,280
perspectives if you don't understand

2014
01:05:45,589 --> 01:05:43,200
where they're coming from you know

2015
01:05:47,750 --> 01:05:45,599
it just seems like in general there's a

2016
01:05:49,349 --> 01:05:47,760
lack of mutual understanding nowadays in

2017
01:05:50,789 --> 01:05:49,359
our society an attempt to even try to

2018
01:05:52,309 --> 01:05:50,799
get where the other person is coming

2019
01:05:54,069 --> 01:05:52,319
from

2020
01:05:55,349 --> 01:05:54,079
you know you need to emphasize

2021
01:05:59,029 --> 01:05:55,359
ultimately with other people

2022
01:06:01,270 --> 01:05:59,039
to help them awesome well again folks

2023
01:06:03,670 --> 01:06:01,280
we've been talking to steven schneider

2024
01:06:06,630 --> 01:06:03,680
aka recluse

2025
01:06:07,990 --> 01:06:06,640
fantastic stuff i hope you got a taste

2026
01:06:10,150 --> 01:06:08,000
of it without getting too

2027
01:06:11,829 --> 01:06:10,160
overwhelmed check out his podcast it's

2028
01:06:16,470 --> 01:06:11,839
just terrific

2029
01:06:18,230 --> 01:06:16,480
long form but deep deep dives into stuff

2030
01:06:19,829 --> 01:06:18,240
strange tales of the parapolitical but

2031
01:06:20,950 --> 01:06:19,839
we're going to want you to go to his

2032
01:06:23,430 --> 01:06:20,960
website

2033
01:06:24,789 --> 01:06:23,440
to catch that where did i do with the

2034
01:06:26,549 --> 01:06:24,799
website

2035
01:06:28,069 --> 01:06:26,559
he's got a new book a special

2036
01:06:28,870 --> 01:06:28,079
relationship that you can get from the

2037
01:06:31,109 --> 01:06:28,880
website

2038
01:06:32,069 --> 01:06:31,119
as well as his other book on the

2039
01:06:35,430 --> 01:06:32,079
parapolitical

2040
01:06:38,150 --> 01:06:35,440
so it's been absolutely terrific

2041
01:06:40,069 --> 01:06:38,160
having you on recluse and uh look

2042
01:06:43,589 --> 01:06:40,079
forward to doing it again

2043
01:06:48,789 --> 01:06:46,630
well thanks again to stephen snyder aka

2044
01:06:50,470 --> 01:06:48,799
recluse for joining me today on skeptico

2045
01:06:52,309 --> 01:06:50,480
the one question i guess i t up from

2046
01:06:54,230 --> 01:06:52,319
this interview is the one that we kind

2047
01:06:55,510 --> 01:06:54,240
of reached at the end of this and that

2048
01:07:06,470 --> 01:06:55,520
is

2049
01:07:09,510 --> 01:07:06,480
one side and crazy right wing

2050
01:07:13,270 --> 01:07:09,520
mooney neocon or

2051
01:07:16,710 --> 01:07:13,280
die alternative on the other is there

2052
01:07:17,829 --> 01:07:16,720
a third way a middle way and how do we

2053
01:07:20,309 --> 01:07:17,839
find it

2054
01:07:22,710 --> 01:07:20,319
i guess that's the question i t up can't

2055
01:07:24,789 --> 01:07:22,720
get any bigger than that one really

2056
01:07:26,069 --> 01:07:24,799
so if you liked this interview if you

2057
01:07:27,029 --> 01:07:26,079
enjoyed it i thought it was a great

2058
01:07:29,190 --> 01:07:27,039
conversation

2059
01:07:31,029 --> 01:07:29,200
i have another one coming up with uh

2060
01:07:33,270 --> 01:07:31,039
recluse on his show

2061
01:07:34,870 --> 01:07:33,280
that'll be out pretty soon check that

2062
01:07:35,510 --> 01:07:34,880
out i've been doing a number of

2063
01:07:38,069 --> 01:07:35,520
interviews

2064
01:07:38,870 --> 01:07:38,079
on other shows and i continue to have

2065
01:07:41,430 --> 01:07:38,880
some

2066
01:07:42,549 --> 01:07:41,440
pretty good ones coming up on skeptico

2067
01:07:45,109 --> 01:07:42,559
as well so

2068
01:07:46,069 --> 01:07:45,119
stay with me for all of that until next